Using Our Elbows ... The Art of Inclusive Leadership with Mark Murphy, Director Global Partner Marketing at Cisco

How do we make space in our work life for everyone to have a voice? What better person to speak to than Mark Murphy, Director of Global Partner Marketing at Cisco.


Mark shares his experience of fostering and supporting a culture of inclusivity at Cisco. One of Mark’s many great roles involved co-leading the Cisco Pride and LGBTQ+ global community. His story is not just about leadership, but also about fostering respect, truth-telling, and positive intent in the workplace.


We love the analogy of using our elbows to make space – about using our voices and clearing space so that everyone can be heard and feel valued.


The conversation moves on to discuss how we all have to move fast in the tech industry, every single day. It’s a team sport – all the way to the customer. Mark shares how his experiences have shaped his approach to teamwork and collaboration. Inclusivity is the key to driving effectiveness in this fast-paced industry.


It’s a positivity fuelled episode. We hope you enjoy listening as much as we clearly did recording it!

We would love you to follow us on LinkedIn!

https://www.linkedin.com/company/amplified-group/

Chapters

• 0:10 Inclusion Journeys and Leadership at Cisco
• 4:50 Journey of Inclusion and Making Space
• 21:44 Tech Industry Leadership and Team Collaboration
• 32:46 Speed and Authenticity in Tech Industry
• 40:30 Thanking a Guest on a Podcast

Transcript

Sam: 0:10

Welcome to Get Amplified from the Amplified Group, bringing stories to help leaders in the tech industry execute at speed through the power of working together. I'm at home in sunny Buckinghamshire after buckets and buckets and buckets of rain last night. Vicki, what's the weather doing up in deepest, darkest Drs?

Vicky: 0:27

It's glorious this morning, but we also enjoyed those buckets of rain yesterday. The grass is looking very green outside again.

Sam: 0:36

My pond has started filling up again. The frogs are back Fantastic. So who we got on the podcast today?

Vicky: 0:44

Yeah, so today we have a very special guest. So we've got Mark Murphy, who is the director of Global Partner Marketing at Cisco, and I first met Mark through some work that I was doing with Rhiannon, so you may remember her, Sam. She came on the podcast with Alistair Wildman when we were talking about the apprentice scheme that Cisco runs. I remember that conversation.

Vicky: 1:08

Yeah, so Rhiannon and I have really kept in touch and in fact I'm really hoping that she's going to be able to come back on the podcast soon and share what he's been doing. She really was, but the work that she was doing. She was hosting a podcast series and Mark was a guest on, and I was just blown away with Mark's attitude to life, I think, and what he brings to the corporate world. So I thought, my God, how inspirational would it be to have him on our podcast.

Vicky: 1:35

So, Mark, thank you so much for making the time today.

Mark: 1:38

It's a pleasure to be here, Sam and Vicky.

Sam: 1:41

Welcome, Mark. Thanks for being with us. I always ask our esteemed guests to start with something about Potted Career History with someone. You mind giving us a little canter through what you've done?

Mark: 1:53

Yeah, I love that. Hello everyone. So Mark Murphy and I am a US expat living here in your wonderful country of the UK for about the past five and a half years. You're very welcome.

Sam: 2:06

We're happy that you joined us.

Mark: 2:08

Living a little bit further north than the two of you. I am up in the Yorkshire Dales and looking out at the fabulous Dales right now and the Wednesday Dale Creamery is out my back door.

Sam: 2:18

We're Wallace and Brammerdorf, so it's pretty great, and there was me thinking they were down in Bristol on an animation.

Mark: 2:27

Out our back door here at the Creamery Amazing, amazing. A little bit about yeah, I was just going to jump in a little bit about my career, just really fast, and then we'll get back to where we are today. Listen, I have what I call often and I describe to people as a three year old finger painting exercise career. My career did not start at one point and go to the next. It has been a finger painting exercise of a three year old and you all can appreciate what that looks like. Listen, I have a statistics degree out of a math department from a university in the United States. I have done sales, I have done business analysis, I have done project management, I have done sort of high level software implementation projects where I've led everything from inventory to accounting to marketing to sales. Underneath the implementation of, I fell into marketing, where I now I've been the last 20 years, some 20 years ago.

Mark: 3:25

Fast forward here to Cisco. I've been at Cisco as an employee a little over eight years and at Cisco we often say that is a company where we have one company and many careers. In fact, I'm in my fourth role at Cisco over the eight plus years and currently again in a partner marketing organization, a partner marketing role. 90% of Cisco's revenues come through our partner world, so we're working in an organization that's pretty close to the business and I love what I do. It's really relationship based. Partners are all about working together for the mutual benefit for both companies. So, yeah, that's a little bit of a part of the introduction of who I am.

Sam: 4:07

That's perfect, thank you. So our topic, or our initial topic today is all about inclusion and you, when we were talking about prepping for the podcast, you gave me some background and I just wanted to start there. You've undertaken two really important journeys in your life as a I don't hope you won't lie me saying a gay guy in the professional court, and then as a global pride LGBTQT leader for the organization as large as Cisco. Can you start by walking us through those journeys, please?

Mark: 4:41

Yeah, Sam, I appreciate the question and you know I people can't see I am of an age, so I'll leave it at that. I am not early in my career and I am not mid in career, so this journey has been one over the course of time. I came out when I was around 19, but that's when I came out to you know a few. So five or six years ago it was five or six twenties. 30 years ago, 50 years ago, quite a while. And you know I was working in a corporate world and I was working in banks and I was working in corporations and companies and all, and you know it was different than that it is today. So my journey, these two paths, while somewhat parallel, as my corporate career kept moving forward and my living, my living my full true self as a gay man, continued. It has come together so beautifully in the last 10 years or so.

Mark: 5:44

And to your question specifically, Sam, you know, first I am Mark Murphy and I am a husband and I am a brother and I am all other kinds of things this is how I talk about myself and I'm an employee and I am also gay. So I don't start with that. That's part of who I am. So, yeah, and so that has allowed me to just be me in the way that I live and I work at Cisco and I did have the really good fortune of working in some great roles as my day job.

Mark: 6:21

And then, in addition to that, Cisco is a very strong employee resource group, employee resource organization with multiple communities represented, one of them being what we call Cisco pride and our LGBTQ plus community. And you know, I leaned in, I raised my hand and then was asked to step in and globally co-lead our pride organization for about three plus years through the worst of the pandemic, which was incredibly challenging, both from a work and from a pride, a human perspective. The journey's been interesting, it's been fascinating. I continue to learn to this day, Sam and Vicki, how people live and what I need to do in order to continue to respect and understand where people come from in their day-to-day lives.

Sam: 7:13

So what do you do as part of those things to encourage inclusion? Is it a mentorship role? Is it just standing up and being who you are?

Mark: 7:24

Yes, and.

Sam: 7:26

What? Yeah, I'm sure there's much more to it than that.

Mark: 7:28

Yeah, you know I'll start with. One of the things I have come to appreciate now, again at this stage in my life, is using my elbows, and you can sort of visually see using my elbows to clear space. I know I'm comfortable with who I am and it's my job and my responsibility and my role today to make space for others and Sam, it does include. I spend a fair bit of time mentoring younger earlier in career, lgbtq plus people. I had a call earlier today. I do raise my hand when there's the opportunity to share or speak or offer. I do lean in and write or document or postactively in the social media space. So for me it is about using the power that I have been given. Fortunately, it is about using my voice, which I feel confident in and, again, as I say, clearing space. My job today is clearing space for people who are coming behind me.

Sam: 8:35

I love that. It makes a lot of sense and I guess the world has changed dramatically over your career time and hopefully we're, as you say, making more space for inclusion generally, not specifically LGBTQ, but generally. What are your principles around inclusion?

Mark: 8:58

You know three things 1, respect to truth telling and 3, positive intent when, and just to say a little bit about each of those, and from a respect standpoint, I don't have any more ability to judge someone else's stuff or things than anybody. So just stepping in with respecting where anybody else is coming from, From the truth telling perspective I was someone said this about me some years ago is mark.

Mark: 9:29

I have the ability to kindly and with grace Tell the truth, whatever it might be the hard truth or the loving truth or the kind truth, but there's a way of truth telling that also just levels the playing field for conversations. And the last is positive intent. Both me stepping into something with positive intent and first thinking that both Sam you and Vicky are approaching anything that you're coming at me with from a positive intent perspective. So just starting there, because again we go back to that judgment thing Whenever someone says something or does something, we don't know where they're coming from, we don't know how their day started, we don't know what's going on in their day lives, we don't know. So, just starting with positive intent, those are the principles that I work to try. I work to lead with their day Sounds good.

Sam: 10:25

I think positive intent is a really good thing to start with. I think that's an interesting concept. I mean, I've always thought of myself as a positive person and always believing the best of people, until occasionally they prove me otherwise. But actually having that as a sort of your own personal mission statement, I think is a really, really strong and strong way to go Reflecting that from others to you, like they're assuming they're starting with positive intent.

Mark: 10:56

Yeah, yeah, it's not about me being positive, I'm good with me, but just thinking that others are starting from that positive place until they.

Sam: 11:03

That must help to almost diffuse conflict to some extent where you maybe two people or three people or whatever have different ideas on where to take a business unit or a company or whatever, and that can create conflict. But if you're coming from the standpoint that actually we both have the best interests of this organization or whatever at heart, we just maybe disagree about the journey to take to get there, that can diffuse attention a little bit, do you think?

Mark: 11:31

Absolutely, and I love that you pulled that out from there, because that's exactly the point, erin, exactly the intent. Sam is yeah, right, if I bring my stuff and I close myself off and I only come from my perspective, you know, there's no room. And again back to the conversation at large here about teamwork and things, that also allows for a very different kind of engagement or an interaction.

Vicky: 11:57

Yeah, yeah. So from our perspective, sam, actually the way you just described positive conflict there, that's exactly part of what we teach when we work with teams. It's that when there is conflict, actually we want that positive conflict because we want everybody to be heard, the quiet people as well as the people that are dominating the conversation. The dominant people in the room find often need to learn to give that space Mark. I'm loving this elbows thing. I'm just blown away with that. That making space is such a wonderful visual description. But that positive conflict so that you're just in search of the best idea with that positive intent, it's a real mind shift of I'm not right or you're not right, it doesn't matter that doesn't matter.

Vicky: 12:49

And we're just in search of the best idea that's going to help move us all forwards. It's a great place to be coming from.

Sam: 12:58

Yeah, I like that. I like that. I also think about the elbows thing. You talked about the quieter people. As a healthy, self-opinionated extrovert, I need to use my elbows to make space for those people who are less confident with talking in groups and bring them into the conversation, maybe. So I think elbows is a good thing. I'm going to steal that.

Mark: 13:23

There's the jump in a couple things there, vicki, back to you. The positive conflict, absolutely. Another piece of that, which is another conversation for another time, is around ego. Yes, all of us leaving a little bit of our ego At the door Side, yeah, so that again, we don't lead with that. But you know, it's fine to have an ego, but not leading with it and saying back to your point there, and maybe we could just for a moment pause on the quieter people, or the people who aren't maybe like the three of us who are, you know, eager to lean in with their voice and verbally start to communicate Again the idea of inclusion, the differences among and between so many people.

Mark: 14:04

I'm a thinker and what that means is is I'll be in a room of people and there's all kinds of things going on and instead of there are some people who will jump in and sort of jump in right away and popcorn and do that in the conversation, and there are others, like we all know, who really won't say anything for different reasons. But I'm someone who, for example, I don't really need someone to give me space, but I'm going to take space by just being quiet, because I'm one who's thinking about all that's going on and all the things that are happening. So this making space is for all the various types and ways in which people communicate, and specifically for those who don't feel confident enough for whatever reason wherever they are in their career.

Sam: 14:48

Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense, so you know, and that could be for many various reasons.

Sam: 14:54

You know we've thought previously on the podcast about, you know, neurodivergence, and you know people with different ways of thinking and communicating may not feel comfortable expressing that. Yeah, people who come from maybe a disadvantage background may feel overwhelmed against amongst is probably a better word those who they perceive to be more, more privileged. And it's again, it's absolutely right, Absolutely right. Those of us who are in a stronger position should use our elbows and create space for those who are coming up to join us, Right?

Mark: 15:28

And, allowing for their voice, they may have the most important thing to say in the whole conversation, totally.

Sam: 15:33

Totally. Yeah. Well, you know we've said before that the, regardless of it being the right thing to do anyway, inclusion and diversity within a business has got to be better for the business, because the more different thoughts and ways of thinking you have within your decision making process, the more likely you are to come to the right decision or decisions. I think.

Mark: 15:57

Yeah, there are study after study after study after study after study that has proven right Inclusion, diversity, equity isn't good just because it's cool and groovy. In fact, it proves that we may.

Sam: 16:11

It is cool and groovy as well.

Mark: 16:13

And and you know we do make more money, we do build better products, we do right make better things for the world. We do solve problems more in a more interesting kind of way. So absolutely.

Sam: 16:30

And it's got to help with your talent pipeline, because you can't be what you can't see. Right there you go.

Mark: 16:36

I love that phrase. Yeah, yeah.

Sam: 16:37

Yeah, so let's talk about teamwork, inclusion, teamwork, bringing those two topics together. What's your view on that?

Mark: 16:48

Well, we've touched on it for just a minute here and, from a teamwork perspective, I've been a leader now for some time and have hired people onto teams and I have a bias and it's my own that I bring to building teams and what I do is we all listen.

Mark: 17:06

During our careers all of us who are listening we all had to do things with our CV or our resume or whatever it is that we have and that we do. And then we apply for a job and we're not really right for that job, but you know, we put our foot into it anyway and work to try. On the other side of the fence, I love looking for people who are different. I love looking for people who, in fact, aren't really a perfect fit but who have interesting stuff going on. I love looking for people who maybe, instead of the 80%, they're a fit, but maybe they're only a 45 to 65% fit, but there's just something interesting about what they've got going on that I at least want to have a conversation with them. So building a team that functions better, that operates better, that runs better, for me, the more different it is in some ways, while hard absolutely leads us to better things, absolutely leads us to better things.

Sam: 18:11

Yeah, I would agree with that. I've, like you, I've always gravitated towards people who are not the same as everybody else. Martin Auer, ceo, then chairman, used to refer to my team as Sam and the odd ones, because he felt that I sort of scooped up all of those sort of not lost souls exactly, but those, those, those who didn't quite fit with the mainstream and hopefully made something of them the thinkers within the organization.

Vicky: 18:43

Sam, you also have talked previously because we've we've checked on this topic before. You talked previously about when you were looking to hire. You liked to hire people that had been out and tried to be entrepreneurial and have gone out of the business for a while and done something different. Say it's in concept.

Sam: 19:05

If somebody had tried to run their own business, even if, even if it hadn't been a success, that was a massive green flag to me, not in any way a red flag. Yeah, ok, so maybe in five years time they might go and try again. Good, but hey, we get five years of innovation and creative thinking and just general gumption out of them in that, in that intervening period.

Mark: 19:27

Yeah, I'm going to just jump in there. I loved how, Sam, you talked about your leaders calling you your team.

Sam: 19:33

The thinkers are giving you all the old ones Praise my teeth.

Mark: 19:38

I'll let you say that I was happy to embrace that.

Mark: 19:42

I love it. No, but I was just going to say in a similar kind of way I lived in San Francisco for 27 years and San Francisco, california, the US, and it has it has a sort of a joking name it's the land of misfit. Toys from the story. The land of misfit is where people who may not belong all find themselves there, and so I'm taking a big leap of faith here in this analogy. But again, in building a team, I love the idea of a team being people. Sam, I so appreciate what you just said who may not be the right or who may not be standard or who may not. You know, they've got the exact background, so that's what I exactly should hire, that's that's not interesting to me.

Vicky: 20:29

You know, I had two new people into the amplified group, into the, into our core team. One is a philosophy student, right, no commercial experience at all, but my God, she's on fire already. And the other is at the other end of the spectrum and she was a manager of a children's nursery for 20 years. Totally different and again she's just bringing a totally different perspective. But for me, what we've all still got the same values.

Mark: 21:02

You start and you can get that. If you're able to read between the lines a little bit and listen and ask questions, You're able to see that you know yeah, no, absolutely it's been.

Vicky: 21:13

it's been really fascinating. So we're six weeks in and we had a call yesterday Doing our prepping for our QBR and we came to what were the lows and we really struggled, considering quite a big transition and we're incredibly busy. It one of the absolute highs was just how quickly they've embraced the change. It was.

Sam: 21:39

Oh brilliant, you're clearly hiring the right people. I remember I used to run the tech grant program at Softcat. I guess I sort of set it up with much, much help from others. And I remember two people specifically that I recruited that you wouldn't expect to fit the mould of a technical graduate program. One because she'd done marine biology, not computer science or something like that.

Sam: 22:07

But when we interviewed her she told us about something that she had learned and researched during her marine biology degree, which was about a, if I remember rightly, it was a particular sea sponge that secreted this substance that made wounds heal faster and she was taking ostensibly to me, she was taking technology and turning it into a solution. You know different technology, but that was the skill that I was looking for, not necessarily a programming degree or something like that. And she's still at Softcat, still doing well. And another guy he actually wasn't a graduate at all, he'd done some credit IT jobs but there was something about him and he was great, worked for Softcat for a number of years, went off and did four or five years at Microsoft and he's now come back to Softcat in what was my old strategy team. So you know both not fitting the mold, but both having something about them that I think I think made a difference really.

Mark: 23:11

Yeah, no, I love that Again opportunity. Our opportunity to bring more people into conversations, more people into teams, is greater than ever. We just have to have some people who are a little bit more bold about doing it, A little bit more confident in doing it.

Sam: 23:28

Yeah, I think that makes sense. So bring us back round to today. You recently received quite an honor. As I recall, you were honored as an inclusive leader by an industry organization. Perhaps you could blow your own trumpet for a minute and tell us about your glorious achievements, recently, deserved, I'm sure. Yes, please, please, do no I appreciate it and don't hide your light under a bushel here.

Mark: 23:53

This is your moment. Thanks, sam and Vicki. I appreciate it. More importantly again, I think in light of the conversation that we're talking about today, channel Reseller News. It's a big publication. It's a global publication in the space where I work and for many years they have published a women in the channel, both ranking and list of people who are important and the like, and they've been doing it for years and they're respected very well. This year, for the very first year, they leaned in and published an inclusive leader listing, of which I was incredibly fortunate to be one of five people at Cisco 80,000 employees.

Mark: 24:34

I was one of five people at Cisco, and probably a hundred or so across the entire industry, to be included in this list and while it is a cool thing for me, I think the more important part of the conversation again ties back into what we're talking about today, which is more people leaning in, acknowledging and talking about why inclusion matters, why diversity, equity, inclusion matters. We're running a business, we're working to do things for the world. We're working to improve the planet. We're working to, whatever it happens to be, this topic of this idea of inclusion being recognized and elevated by governments, industries, businesses, is such an important part of again, recognition and acknowledgement of not just the right thing to do but why, the value and why the importance. So I appreciate you both calling it out here today and again. While it's individual in honor and for my peers and colleagues at Cisco and others, it's the larger recognition why we as a humanity need to think as a humanity.

Sam: 25:48

Yeah, yeah, thinking as a humanity. That's an interesting concept, I think. If more of us did that, the world would be better placed right.

Mark: 25:56

I would happen to think so.

Sam: 25:58

yes, You'd certainly hope so, wouldn't you?

Mark: 26:01

Yeah, for sure.

Sam: 26:02

So, vicki, you wanted to ask about how to assess as a team sport.

Vicky: 26:07

I do want to talk about assess as a team sport, but I feel after that it's slightly insignificant, but it's not insignificant to many of our listeners.

Vicky: 26:22

So, mark, you know, when we did our prep call, I was talking about what we do and many of the tech organizations that we work with are moving to SaaS and this concept of, actually, if you're really trying to drive and you're being customers, if you're trying to be customer centric in this SAS world, then that really does take a team of individuals coming together to look after that customer and get the best out of the customer, so that customer.

Vicky: 26:59

So I was working with a team in Munich last week and they said ultimately, our rally cry is we want customers for life, and I'm like that is an absolutely brilliant place to start. So when we talked about it, like you are doing now, you are nodding very energetically. So why do you think this is important? And I think you know Just before you answer that you in the role in the partner world, the way that you explain partners to start with. So being in the partner world is a big chunk of my corporate career, sam's career as well. So we understand that partner piece and the partners are playing a big piece in that too, so maybe we could add that as a second part of the question.

Mark: 27:42

Yeah, the reason I'm off camera nodding energetically is that my day job is, in many ways, about this very topic, maybe not SAS specifically, but around SAS and a few others. So my day job is I'm the director of routes to market in global partner marketing, and what that means is, in particular, I'm focusing, or routes, as we call them, now that you're in England. Excuse me, the routes to market, as we would say here in England.

Sam: 28:12

Selling routers, not routers.

Mark: 28:14

I don't sell those at all, but do you know?

Sam: 28:17

I know we've moved on from switches and things right.

Mark: 28:20

I love it. Yes, the routes to market that I lead in particular is the cloud marketplace through AWS, azure or Google, and or also managed services, which is where we now start to really talk about software subscription, software as a service Right, that piece that you're talking about here, vicki. And oh my goodness, this is a team sport. Oh my goodness, this is a team sport. Right, cisco is getting into the business, but it's not Cisco alone. All the way to the customer, it's oh my goodness, it's multiple teams in Cisco having to.

Mark: 28:57

In many ways, we've been on an eight year transformation journey through our CEO, chuck Robbins, about selling boxes to delivering software solutions. So we have multiple teams at Cisco. That you know. We're having to transform so many things, literally from contracts to finance, to sales, to salesforcecom implementations, to our marketing, everything we do. And that's just inside our own house. And then there's priorities in our own house. Then we take into account, then we the routes how do we reach the customer? So, in my world, then, once we finally get to the marketing piece of it, well then we've got to train our partner marketing managers that are closest to our partners, who then work with our partners, who then work with their customers.

Mark: 29:48

So you talk about a team sport in selling sass. Oh my goodness, I very much appreciate how challenging and how big this is, as any company is going either through the transformation or they're already there, and they do this today. It is very much inclusive of teams and organizations and making sure that we're all thinking about to your point. You know, how do we keep this customer for life? Where are they going? Not what not do I want to sell, not what do I want to do, but where are they going?

Vicky: 30:28

Yeah, it's a different mind shift, isn't it? You know the number of organizations that are so internally focused. That doesn't work in this world.

Mark: 30:41

Listen, we've all got our own stuff and whether you're a big company or a small company, we've you know, it lives everywhere. But this focus or this transition, this change to more as a service is absolutely it's literally a part of my day job and what I wake up thinking about every single day.

Sam: 31:02

We've come a long way from drive-by selling.

Mark: 31:05

Absolutely, and you know, off a fax machine. For those who will know what that is right, Taking orders off of a machine.

Sam: 31:12

I've ordered after room for fax.

Vicky: 31:15

Yeah, we started.

Sam: 31:17

Yeah, really interesting, ricky, anything to.

Vicky: 31:22

I'm just keep going back to this elbows and making space because it's just so powerful and even as we're talking about this SaaS or just the way that the tech industry is now embracing their customers, making the space for all of the different elements in that customer journey. That's what I think Some podcasts we do. I've learned something new here that we're going to go and take and do something with, and I think I've just learned so much from the way that you just positioned the market. It's been incredibly helpful.

Mark: 32:07

Well, I appreciate that I'm looking back at again. The name of your podcast series is Stories that Help Leaders in the Tech Industry Execute at Speed. We talk a lot at Cisco about we have to go faster. We have to go faster every single day and anyone who's listening and you two knowing particular going faster is not easy.

Sam: 32:31

Particularly as a big organization, right you? Know, it's the old innovators dilemma thing, isn't it, where the big players get some of the smaller and more nimble coming up behind them and overtaking them Absolutely.

Mark: 32:46

So this idea of how we all together in the tech industry, for other leaders who are listening, how we execute at speed, with grace, with respect, with truth telling, with positive intent, all of those things and authenticity.

Sam: 33:06

I think that is something that you clearly, absolutely embody, something that I think is really important these days.

Mark: 33:13

It is. I think it's more easy to see people who aren't authentic.

Vicky: 33:18

Yes.

Mark: 33:19

Yeah, very yeah.

Vicky: 33:21

So I think yeah, I think that's a really good point. It's fascinating that you call out thank you for saying it's executing its speed. Funnily enough, we are tagline used to be helping tech organizations execute faster and we've stopped using that because going faster feels like it's going to be more stressful and it's harder, but actually, ultimately, we're seeing an awful lot of busy fools out there.

Mark: 33:50

Yeah right.

Vicky: 33:52

Because we're all so busy working virtually in our bubbles, we think we're going to be super efficient, but actually we need to be able to collaborate more effectively together and it doesn't mean we're working harder, we're just working more effectively and efficiently together. Yeah, so we're now using and starting our stories and sorry, this is not in the plan at all to talk about, but I'm using the methodology from General Stanley McChrystal. Team of teams.

Mark: 34:24

Yes, yes, yes.

Vicky: 34:25

So he talked about as he built his organization and stopped being the silos and the separate teams. So his Navy SEALs were optimized, the intelligence agents and he moved from I think it was apologies if these numbers aren't exactly correct, but something like 13 raids a month to 18 raids a month when he built what he called shared consciousness and they had shared purpose and trust across the organisation With the same number of people. They went to more than 300 raids a month. So that was working more effectively. And so if we can figure out how to do that and get those cross-collaboration across teams and the whole, it's a team sport. If we can figure out how to do that and I'm not talking about stovepipe teams, I'm talking about one team Does that make sense to you?

Mark: 35:22

It makes perfect sense to me and I was even. I'm thinking back to again this is me being a little cheeky in your title the stories to help leaders in the tech executed speed. I would even go back to the word around help and I would think about stories to support leaders to execute it speed. Oftentimes people don't know when you say to someone may I help you, can I help you?

Vicky: 35:48

I don't know what help they need today.

Mark: 35:50

No, exactly Exactly, Vicki, and I learned that lesson 15, 20 years ago. Someone said that to me. So back to your point in thinking about how your organisation and how other teams work together to support the business as it moves forward faster, more with speed, not fast with speed. It makes perfect sense. Yeah, makes perfect sense.

Vicky: 36:18

Yeah, right, we're changing it to support. We've got that. Thank you very much.

Sam: 36:23

Brilliant. So, mark, we've taken up more than too much of your time, which we really appreciate. Perhaps, as we come to the end, you'd be kind enough to give us something of a summary, your three key takeaways, if you don't mind.

Mark: 36:39

Yeah, I appreciate that, and this has been a pleasure to spend the time. Please, it has been a pleasure. A couple takeaways Again, as we circle right back to what we were talking about supporting leaders to executed speed. Today we talked about team teams and related to maybe something that I'm more passionate around, which is inclusion. Again, the takeaway for me one, two, three would be one think outside of your own self, just think outside of your own self about what may be going on for someone else or for the rest of the world. To have a plan, please have a plan. Please have a plan. Beg, if you have a plan.

Vicky: 37:24

Oh, my goodness, we could have a complete more topic on that one, the number of people. Because a cat sorry, I know I'm jumping in here but we get asked so much to help with organizations around accountability. But it's accountability. They're looking at a forecast, or actually what we're winning at the end, instead of being accountable to what the plan is. They haven't got a plan, so we're so with you on that.

Mark: 37:48

Yeah. So one, think outside of your own self. Two please have a plan. And three, this is just Mark Murphy, but just be kind.

Vicky: 38:00

Oh yes, Just be kind, Do you know? One of our top podcasts ever was you can't.

Sam: 38:09

Kind girls don't get the corner off it.

Vicky: 38:11

Yeah, those girls can't get the corner off it. That was one, but then the other one was you can't automate kindness. That's not AI, right.

Mark: 38:20

That's what we bring. Yeah.

Vicky: 38:22

Yeah, love that.

Sam: 38:25

Interesting and, as we always do, we'd like to ask you, as our esteemed guest, to recommend a book, please, for our listeners.

Mark: 38:33

No, I appreciate that, and the book title is the Giving Tree and it is written by Shell S-H-E-L. Shel Silverstein, oh wow.

Sam: 38:47

I remember him. So I lived in Southern California for five years as a kid. So the missing piece and the big O and all these children's books I absolutely adored.

Vicky: 38:58

Yeah, so, Mark, I took your recommendation. Thank you very much and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Sam: 39:04

I don't think I've read that one. Tell me about it.

Mark: 39:06

It is about giving the story away. It's a very short read everybody, and it is about a little boy having a relationship with the tree and it is about the little boy having a conversation with the tree and the tree giving leaves, you know, the leaves falling up the tree for the boy. The boy plays and the boy grows up and becomes a bit of a young man and the tree too starts to get a little older. But the boy always loved the tree. And then, as the boy grows up and goes away, comes back to have a relationship with the tree, as the tree now is giving apples and sort of giving back to the world in its own way. And then, without giving the real story away, the tree then gives of himself to the young boy, who has become a young man and then becomes an older man. And so it's this relationship of how the tree gives of itself to the young boy to live his life from being a very young little boy to an old man. And it's just beautiful and it's simple. I love that.

Vicky: 40:15

It is very simple, but it talks about the change of that relationship, doesn't it? And how it changes over time, and how they adapt to each other.

Sam: 40:24

Yeah.

Vicky: 40:25

Yeah.

Sam: 40:26

Sounds like I need to read this. Well, grease my knees or fleece my bees. I found my missing piece Nice, nice, Shel Silverstein.

Mark: 40:36

I have that other right behind me as well, so you can see it right there. That's it.

Sam: 40:42

Amazing, amazing, wow. What a podcast. That was Vicky. I'm sorry, jay. Yeah, no, you were right, you were right. So it just remains for me to say thank you, mark. That was absolutely brilliant. We've loved having you on the podcast. Hopefully we'll have you on as a guest again in the future. If you would be willing, we would appreciate it.

Mark: 41:01

It was lovely to be able to be with you, vicky and Sam, and what a great conversation. So thank you very much, thank you.

Sam: 41:07

And it just remains for me to say thanks to our listeners for joining us on Get Amplified from the Amplified Group. As always, your comments and your subscriptions are gratefully received.