How A Degree Apprenticeship Built A Cisco HR Leader with Beth Taylor

What if the career path you're meant to follow isn't the one everyone expects?

In this episode of Get Amplified, we sit down with Beth Taylor, Country Lead for UK and Ireland People and Communities at Cisco, to explore how feeling average at school, and later discovering her neurodiversity ultimately shaped a successful career in HR leadership.

Choosing a degree apprenticeship over the traditional university route gave Beth the opportunity to earn, learn, and gain real-world experience from day one. She shares how practical learning, supportive mentors, and unexpected opportunities helped her build confidence, credibility, and a career she loves.

We also discuss trust, psychological safety, leadership through change, and why creating space for growth matters now more than ever.

In this episode, we cover:

• Choosing a degree apprenticeship and learning through experience
• Discovering neurodiversity and finding supportive workplaces
• The power of networking, mentors, and chance conversations
• Building trust and psychological safety in teams
• Leading through change with openness and shared ownership
• Creating protected development time through Cisco's "Time to Grow"
• Better career conversations and the question: "What would you like to be known for?"

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Transcript

Welcome And Office Catch Up

Sam 0:09

Welcome to Get Amplified, the podcast about people that power the tech industry. Morning, Vicky. What's the uh weather looking like in deepest artist Oxfordshire? It's glorious over here in Bucks.

Vic 0:20

Yeah, it's it is here too, Sam. And actually, it's just not too hot. There's a nice breeze.

Sam 0:26

Yeah, it has that breeze, has been a godsend the last few days. How's the new office?

Vic 0:32

It's just wonderful. We had the whole team over last week, and Lindsay and Pip were having a discussion about PR, and I was working on some invoicing with an ROP person, and Harry was doing some content creation, and it was just buzzing.

Sam 0:50

Bad. Yeah. Bad. Have you got a decent coffee machine in the office? That's the important thing.

Vic 0:57

No.

Sam 1:01

I'm not coming then.

Vic 1:03

We'll get one if you're coming, Sam.

Sam 1:06

I'll bring my own. I'll bring my own. Anyway, enough about your office. Who have we got on the podcast today?

Vic 1:13

So today we've got a really special guest. We've got Beth Taylor, who is country lead for UK and Ireland people and communities at Cisco. And I've known Beth a few years now, and Beth is part of our TMX community and is just I think when we first met Beth, it just felt like a meeting of minds. It was just such a joy to meet you. And um Sam, I met Beth through Rihannan, who came on to Salister Walmart way, way, way back. So that's that's how we that's how we know each other. We've moved on since then.

Sam 1:50

Yes. Good stuff. Well, welcome Beth. Great to have you on the podcast this morning.

Beth 1:55

Oh, thank you both so much for having me. I'm so looking forward to this.

Sam 1:58

Excellent. Good stuff.

Beth’s Path Into HR

Sam 2:00

Well, maybe you could start by just taking us through your background, your career history today, if you don't mind.

Beth 2:05

Yeah, absolutely. So um, yeah, as Vicky said, I'm Beth. So I've been at Cisco now for seven years. It's been an interesting journey from day dot. So I don't mind sharing all of the details. So I think it all starts actually from college for me. I was a fairly average student, didn't realise I was neurodivergent, had a really difficult journey. I failed quite a lot of things in school. So I thought actually what might be the most appropriate career journey for me, which I thought was going to be and ended up being thankfully very hands-on practical work. So I heard of this great company that was doing a degree apprenticeship where you can work, get paid, get a degree, and not have a single bit of debt. And I was like, well, that's absolutely perfect. So I joined Cisco. I didn't quite realise until my first day that it was meant to be for sales and technical mind. And uh, as Vicky said, I'm an HR professional and I and I knew that from daily dot. So it's like multious first year. But yes, I've been with Cisco for seven years now and HR for six of those. So you can kind of imagine I went in with a with a plan. I started in, I've done a bit of communications, I've done a bit of operations management, I've done specialist HR, and then eventually I've just found my found my people. Uh, I did in my first role in what we call people and communities, or we sit within an organization called 3P, People, Policy and Purpose. Uh, and I just didn't move. I I definitely put my feet in the ground and said, I dug my heels in and said, I'm not, I'm not moving, and then the rest is the rest of my through, really.

Sam 3:35

This is where I'm staying.

Beth 3:36

Exactly, yeah.

Sam 3:38

Fair enough. That's really interesting. I mean, you know, I I joined SoftCat pretty young, but I'm not sure I necessarily had a plan like you had. What gave you the the confidence to build into that from right from the get-go?

Beth 3:53

It all happened by chance, I think. I was in the office one day. I think I was in my I was in my communications gig at that point, and I really liked it. I really liked the creativity, the freedom. I was studying for my degree, and I I randomly met a person in the office, and just we had a little back and forth around people in communities and actually what my wants are. I joined Cisco really young, I was 19. So actually having those conversations, they're really scary. Uh, and then you just go put yourself out there, put yourself out there, have those conversations, network. And actually, if you don't, if you don't feel like you know how to do that effectively, it can be so scary. Yeah, but we were just having a chat. I think it was four o'clock in the afternoon. We were talking about what's on the cinema at the time, and um, it ended up being the the newly hired VP for people and communities for Europe, Middle East and Africa. So that's Oliver. That was Sam Oliver, and and next thing you know, I was out for dinner that evening and I got an email from him going, We want you in our space, and we'll do whatever we we need to do to make that possible. And oh fact. Oh my goodness, just stars aligning, one of my greatest mentors and sponsors, and I've I've never moved since. And he immediately pulled me into his world with people partners, business partners, I think they were called at the time, um, with the HR managers and then the the UKI country team, which I just was completely taken with because I love generalist HR. So I was in that team for quite a while, and I've never left. So now I am the lead consultant of that team. I started from the bottom and worked my way up, and that's thanks to the the people I have around me in the community within Cisco and externally as well, and and Vicky, I count you and Team X as part of that. So a huge amount of confidence for the people that you have around you because that community is so strong, right? They have the ability to just lift you up with them. So yeah, and and clearly it worked because I I never I never left. I was so happy.

Sam 5:46

And you knew even before you started at Cisco that you wanted to do HR stuff.

Beth 5:52

It was a the way that I did my college diploma, I completely failed my A levels. So I did my diploma, and I had a parent who was also in the the business world, and and you have to do you have to do a mandatory week of work experience. So I said, perfect. What we're gonna do? So I think I did a bit of experience, and this was for a company at the time which was called Dimension Data. I think they were based in I think Fleet at the time, they they might still be. Um, but I did some work with them in marketing and then with um people and communities, and I loved it both, but within people and communities, which I think was called people and culture at the time, I just absolutely loved it. I loved the conversations, I loved that no day was the same. I just thought, oh my goodness, this is where I feel that I could add value if given the opportunity. And thankfully I was given that opportunity. So yes, absolutely.

Sam 6:47

That was that was the foundation of it all.

Beth 6:49

Exactly, yes. And it's that age, right? Where you you're like, what do people wear in the office anymore? People are starting to become more casual. You know, how do you how do you network? How do I follow up with this? I think even writing a simple email was so was so daunting. But um, yes, I think that was when I was either 17 or 18.

Early Work Experience That Sticks

Beth 7:05

So yeah. Wow.

Vic 7:07

You know, that just shows, doesn't it, how important work experiences and getting work experience.

Sam 7:15

I suppose both formal work experience and having some form of a you know a Saturday job as it always used to be, or whatever, you know, any experience in the world of work before you finish your formal education is really good, I think.

Beth 7:28

Yes, I I worked in a coffee shop ever since I was 16. From the minute, I think I had my interview for this job the day after I had prom at 16, and then I worked in in this coffee shop all the way up until the week before I started Cisco, and I went from being barista to supervisor to assistant manager, and I still think about the lessons learned through that experience, and it's all so valuable. Like I think about it all the time, all of these experiences, whether you feel like they've served you or not, you will still continue to draw from them. And I still do today some of the most important lessons, I think.

Sam 8:04

I I did mostly sort of retail jobs at that point, Tesco and budgets and so on. So it's just top of mind because I popped into Tesco last week just to pick up some some bits, and I went through the till of a lady called Jackie, who I remembered from when I worked worked there. And I mean, this is I'm not not kidding, this is 30 years ago.

Vic 8:23

Wow.

Sam 8:25

And she it absolutely made a day that I remembered her and remembered her name. I mean, she's I think she said she's 78 and still working on the till at Tesco. So just so she's such a lovely lady. So yeah.

Beth 8:37

I've always said I think everybody needs to have a bit of experience in retail or hospitality or something once in their life because well, I think you see the very best of people, and they're sometimes the very worst. So a bit of a different conversation sometimes, just think hold it together, it's all good.

Sam 8:53

For a while, and that that basic customer service grounding is is really important. You know, we've drilled into us. If somebody asks you where something is, you don't just tell them what island's on, you walk them there and you show it to them. Absolutely agree. All of that sort of simple stuff you think, yeah, actually that makes sense because then they come back and yeah, yeah. No, that's cool. Yeah, I think I'm I'm in agreement with that. And I think it's it's it feels to me like it's harder and harder for people to get work experience, maybe because people aren't in the office as much or um I agree.

Beth 9:25

I think there's a real I know there's a real difference in so as I came through the apprenticeship route, we were required to be in the office nine to five, Monday to Friday, come rain or shine, and then obviously COVID came in, yeah, and that changed everything. And and you look at actually maybe some of the experiences that the conversations that apprentices today are having compared to when we join maybe in this is FY FY20. So and and it's so different, it's such a vast um yeah, vast differences. So I while it was a pain at the time, and I thought, oh my goodness, it's such a pain. I remember sitting in the roundabout on the reading, um the running roundabout, and it used to be so bad with traffic every morning. Satan going, for goodness sake, it was only 30 minutes up the road. But actually, that was such an invaluable experience. The people that you meet, even those they say the importance of the water cooler conversation, they are so actually the behaviours, the competencies, it is so important. So while it was a pain, and the petrol consumption, oh my goodness, off the chart, and and how what I could have been doing in that rush hour traffic,

Apprenticeships And Learning Differently

Beth 10:30

so important, and uh always be thankful for for those lessons, um, even if I wasn't at the time.

Sam 10:37

And the degree of apprenticeship thing, sorry, this is completely off topic. We haven't sort of prep prepped for this, but I I the degree apprenticeship thing is really interesting, it just seems to make a lot of sense to me. You know, I I was rigorously academic, so you know, I I knew I wanted to take a particular subject as far as I could take it. So, you know, the degree apprenticeship thing wasn't appropriate for me, but I think that's I didn't it didn't exist a million years back when I was at uni.

Vic 11:02

You're very Sam. What did you do and where did you go? Oh, come on, Sam.

Sam 11:11

I'm not sure this is relevant. This is about Beth, this isn't the same show. Yeah, so so I I I studied classics, so Latin, Greek, ancient history, philosophy, archaeology, specialized in linguistics, and I did it at Cambridge. So I was I was uh well still I'm a geek. I've just been a geek about many different things, but I loved it. I mean it was an an amazing experience. Um but I just the the whole degree apprenticeship thing just seems fantastic to me. What a great scheme. It obviously it's obviously done you the world of good, Beth.

Beth 11:46

Apprenticeships are quite normal now, and absolutely rightfully so. At the time that I joined Cisco, I think they were quite new. I remember I had getting quite deep now, but it I think my my parents saw moving into an apprenticeship as maybe a little bit of a failing, is as I didn't go the traditional university route. And at the time, I can I really blame them at the time, the knowledge, the value of an apprenticeship was yet to be proven. But when I joined Cisco, the apprenticeship is so thoughtfully structured in the sense that you join, you rotate for your first year, and this is this is the apprenticeship as I knew it then, but you rotate round and do three-month rotations for your first year, the second year you you're kind of finding a little bit, you're you're narrowing your path so you do two six-month rotations, and then for your third and final year, you're kind of in a role for it for a year that you think that you're ultimately going to graduate into if business have the ability to offer you that role at the time. And thankfully, quite a lot of the cohort that that I was part of was able to move into the greater Cisco. But the the learning element of it, so you do your degree along the same time, and it's so cleverly done in the sense that the job that you're doing, that the learnings, all the experience, it actually feeds part of your degree. So I was able to do mine again. Like I mentioned, it was meant to be a sales and technical route. I was like all about people. So I managed to work a I have a Bachelor of Science in Digital and Technology Solutions. So I managed to work that into people. Right, it was difficult, I'm telling you, but it was one of those things where I managed to make it around inclusion, it was around neurodiversities. If you think about research methods and all of that, I mean maths and algorithms, I had I had no chance. I just had to dig deep and try and find something there. But we managed to build it all around the topic that is basically near and dear to your heart. And I I loved that. When I'm doing something that I enjoy, I just want to get into it and make it the very best it can be. So the ability and the flexibility to do that was just, yeah, it was it was priceless. So I I really, really enjoyed it. The the more studious side of things, I think might be the opposite to you, Sam. So huge respect to you. But I'm not very academic in the slightest. So having being able to do that practically, have hands-on experience was just it totally was my kind of isn't that why these different programs need to exist?

Sam 14:21

We've all got different brains.

Beth 14:22

Exactly, exactly. And I just knew if I went down the uni route, I would have been miserable. I think it would have been great from a culture perspective and that learning and and all of those kind of life lessons that you have around making friends. But I would have walked out with a degree that would have taken something from me, it would have cost me so much money, and I wouldn't have got anywhere near the name out of it I would as the apprenticeship. So a long answer to a relatively short, but I think they are the future. I really, really do.

Sam 14:51

I just I think it's I think it's fab, you know. It's um uh there will always be people like me who want to follow a rigorously academic path, and uh, you know, I am a believer in study for study for study's sake or interest in a subject for a subject's stake, and and clearly it didn't do me any harm in the long run in terms of career, I suppose. But equally, I fully understand that there are people with with brains that work in different ways, and also the ability to get through a degree and at the same time have accelerated yourself into the world of work without any debt is incredible.

Beth 15:32

Yeah, it's also really hard, and I don't want to make it sound like I got it absolutely perfect because I didn't. There were I was learning about my neurodiversities with Cisco when I was 19, 20, 21. So, and I remember having some really difficult conversations. Sam, my mentor Sam Oliver phoned me at one point and just said, I think we need to have an honest conversation around what you're taking on and and how we can get this done. And this isn't a this isn't a failing, this isn't saying that you're dropping the ball places, I'm just worried about you. And it's it's a lot to juggle because you are not only just doing a degree and doing a job, but you're also trying to show up as your best all the time, you're trying to work, you're trying to have the patient. Yeah, and also again, you're so young, you're still kind of learning who you are as well in that professional environment. So again, the the community that I had around me within Cisco and more broadly, I couldn't have done it without them because they just kept me going as well, and also just kept me honest because it's it's really quite difficult to do that while navigating all of it. So it's just so important.

Vic 16:40

So that makes sense to me completely, Beth, with with the work that I do for Cranfield University. So that's that's working with students that are coming through a degree apprenticeship. Yeah, we have quite a lot from Mercedes, for example, but I can really see a difference in first-year students versus third-year students in relation to what I'm teaching. So I'm doing all of the stuff that we do around teamwork and leading through change, and the attitude that they have in year three because they've been in the world of work and they've seen how relevant it is that says, Why are you telling me this stuff? Why do I need this? Yeah, is so so different.

Beth 17:24

And what a powerful person you would you are to be in their network as well, and such an important person because the sooner, the better, the deeper that you learn the value of teams, particularly in working place, and the better, right? And then who editor teacher.

Vic 17:40

Thank you. It's it's really wonderful actually that that Grabfield see the need to have this content in their business plan, degree. Yeah,

Leading Through Change With Clarity

Vic 17:50

yeah, agree. Yeah, fab.

Sam 17:53

Great. So now that you're firmly established at Cisco in in your people role, you've by the sounds of things been involved in helping teams navigate some seriously difficult periods of change. What can you tell us about those experiences and how you can help leaders do what they need to do?

Beth 18:15

That's a great question. Oh my goodness, a million things pop up. Yeah, um, yeah. So in my role, we are responsible for engagement and change and compliance, and that comes with a lot of things, a lot of really wonderful things, a lot of things that enable you to change the direction of culture in a country with the team around you. Um, but also there are always within the nature of the work going to be some difficult conversations, there are going to be some difficult scenarios and just difficult periods that you've got to try and lead people through. The way that I have managed those, so I think to paint a bit of a picture. So I belong to multiple teams, but within the UK and Ireland, the team that I sit on, we are a dynamic team. So we have about three different leaders that we all individually report to. So we have one leader that's responsible for all of the country support, um, employee country support within AMIA. We have a leader that's responsible for all of the country consultants within AMEA, and we also have our director as well, that luckily um and good for him, he reports up to Sam. So we all come together to support the UK and Ireland. So while we're not a linear team, we are a dynamic team. So that that dotted line, I think that's that's that's super important as well, because I'm a leader but in a kind of indirect capacity. Yeah. Um, so that's my that's my team. Those are that's my tribe, those are my people. Um, so how we do difficult periods, we we do it together. And I think the key to that is just to to oversimplify is honestly to communicate. When I came into um the role in a in a leadership capacity, I thought I had to do everything by the book. I had to bring people in on a need-to-know basis or when the time was appropriate. And I was quite uh quite rigorous about that. And it it just didn't work for me. I'll be so honest. I think I learned very quickly that that was not the way to build trust. And if I don't have trust with my team and vice versa, we're not going to get anywhere. We have to move forward as one. So being really mindful of sharing when it's right and sharing when it's appropriate, but having honesty and openness and clarity and direction were all the things that we we needed to build trust. If our team trusted each other, then we could move forward with that messaging and make sure that we're moving together as one to support our employees, our leaders, our teams through these difficult periods. Not everyone's going to have the answers. We needed to lean into that and we needed to be be honest with ourselves. But that honesty, yeah, the clarity and the communication, and not sound like a broken record, but it's just so, so important. And we have equal emphasis on supporting employees through that, but also supporting our leaders because we uh expect them to kind of know all within this business, lots of characters. They're so fast, so fast-paced. And actually, are we really giving our leaders enough time to? I'm somebody that likes to look into something and get so familiar and and research to the nth degree. And do we really give our leaders actually the time and the space to get to know that change and be able to move forward with that clarity, with the direction? I don't think that we have that quite yet. So people do look to us and we need to be able to to own that. And where we again might not have all the all the answers, we're going to be able to be that point where we go, we don't know, but hold with us. We're going to take that away and we're going to come back to you and we're going to work through this together. And I think that's the that's

Building Trust And Expanding The Bubble

Beth 21:50

the the key to that is that ownership, realistically.

Vic 21:53

And the togetherness as well, Beth. You you talk a lot about tribe, don't you? And and the importance Of being able to lean on others. Yes.

Beth 22:02

I I know I've mentioned it to you, Vicki. I've mentioned my bubble, haven't I? And at Cisco, I am so lucky and I feel really privileged. I just feel so safe. I feel like I can bring my entire self to work. I can talk openly about my neurodiversities. I can challenge and I can question and I can do so in a welcome environment, in a safe environment. I feel like I have a seat at the table, and that's the people around me that that allow me to feel like that. So my I completely acknowledge as well that I am in HR, I have an HR bubble. That's that's how it feels. I feel like my bubble is so safe and so strong. So I and my team feel that it's our job to make that bubble bigger and just bring people into that feeling, like that's really what we want to do and the value that we feel that we can add. And that's how we'll build trust more broadly. And trust isn't something that we achieve and then we've got it. It's fine. We have to continue to earn that trust. That's fragile, isn't it? Exactly. It's so precious. And I and that's something that we will continue to look at, continue to measure. Trust is our buzzword, it's one of our indexes. I think it's something that every single day we have to work on because to assume that you have it is to treat it, I think, wrongly. So we have to continue to work on that.

Vic 23:22

I love how you just described that. I got a tingle down my spine as you were talking about your book because what you just described there is how we think about Team X, isn't it? Absolutely. Exactly that. And um, I think you know, we're building out a team, a team index, a GTM team index for the tech industry. Where we'll we'll actually be able to really measure the trust. But my sense is what you've got is quite special and it isn't felt broadly across the industry at all. So your point of expanding your bubble, I just love that. And that was one of the main reasons we wanted you to come on today to talk about that. So you've just captured that so beautifully. Thank you. I think we might just be posting that that bit as an extra bit.

Beth 24:07

Oh, I no, I'm so pleased, and but but honestly, it's so true, and I just feel it's where we're gonna add it's where we're gonna add value, and only when we have that is where we'll create best in class teams. And we just can't have it without so it's as simple as that. And and Sam, you know, and Vicky, you know that it's just so important to get that right. Yeah. Yeah.

Sam 24:30

We even had a question plan about the bubble, didn't we?

Beth 24:32

But I was thinking to Vicky and Lindsay, and they were like, you have to talk about the bubble. I was like, look, always willing to share about the bubble.

Sam 24:42

Yeah.

Beth 24:42

No, that's cool.

Sam 24:43

That's fad. You talk about growing growing your bubble there, which is fascinating. Um is that important for career growth and the success of your team?

Beth 24:55

I absolutely think so. I know that when employees or a member of the team feel as as safe as I do to just authentically be yourself, to know that you can show up exactly as you are in a team, that you can fly, you can ask the right questions, that the team can ask the right questions. And I and I want them to be able to feel like they can do that, they can grow, they can learn, they can adapt. We have such agility in the team, and you can only do that when you feel like the team has your back. We have at Cisco what was um we're slightly changing it now, but what was called the engagement pulse. And it it literally is, it doesn't say it on the tin. We're keeping our finger on the pulse of engagement in the team and making sure, and one of those questions is do I feel heard in a team? Do I feel like my team members have my back? And I just think that that culture element, that sense of community, how do you feel that you can grow and ask those questions and ask for the space to be able to grow if you don't feel like you can have that conversation? So I just think it's it's so important. I want everyone to feel that they can to challenge to a certain degree, that they can question, they can take time for themselves. Cisco try and do it so well. We now have what's called time to grow, where every month we have hours blocked off in our calendar, which is exactly that dedicated for individuals to grow. And it's just so important. We protect that time so fiercely. So I think it's all relative because when you feel that you can, you

Making Time To Reflect And Grow

Beth 26:30

will, and I want everyone to feel like they can ultimately.

Vic 26:32

You know what that's uh have a big smile about. So uh we I think you've met a Harry who works. Oh, she's so fabulous. Yeah, so Harry's a graduate, but because she's a graduate, it's really important that we look after her properly, and even though we're only a small team, Harry's got her annual appraisal today, and we're like, oh, that's a bit of a scary word. And she's like, Oh, what's this? And why am I the only one that's got one? I'm like, well, okay, so so we've actually called it reflect and grow, and that's what we're doing. It's it's about reflecting on what she's done, where we can help her more, yeah. And and she, as you know, comes to the table with I want to grow. It's the whole because you can provide the space for someone, can't you? But they need to have that attitude of absolutely wanting to grow versus now I've got it, I've got this.

Beth 27:28

No, I love that. And you'll find this funny, Vicki. So I had my a similar conversation yesterday with my manager, so we have them every six months, and mine's called ours are called the um performance and development discussion. So half of it is for performance, half is for your development. And my manager asked me a great question at the end, which is what would you like to be known for and how can I help you achieve it? And I love that and I was like, Oh my, and she didn't send you those questions to prime you before, wanted your honest reactions, and I loved it. I sat with that for a good minute and I was like, oh my goodness, that it's such a profound question. And I I loved it because I was like, You completely have my back. You I want to tell you, I want to be clear on where I want to go, and I I know that you're gonna help me get there. So I love those conversations, and I love that actually we're carving out time for the development part of it now, not just the reflection, but also where development this is all wonderful. Yeah, where can we take it? Where where is the new Everest for you?

Vic 28:24

And and I love that. Well, that the the funny thing that came out of that as well was as we were prepping the questions, and I was working with Lindsay on the questions, we went, we shouldn't just be doing this for Harry. We all want it. I said, I want to grow, right? We all we all want it.

Sam 28:40

It's great.

Beth 28:41

Ask me about what I would like to do. Yeah, absolutely.

Vic 28:44

So we've all we've all we're all gonna do it. Not not just it was just the fact that it was the right thing to do for Harry, but we it's it's the right thing to do for all of us, even the more senior people in the you know get that booked in, Vicki. Do it. Well, I will be able to make over it. Amazing.

Sam 29:03

Sab stuff. Well, we've covered a huge amount of ground. So thank you, Beth. That's been been fantastic so far.

Takeaways Book Pick And Closing

Sam 29:10

Have you got any any takeaways for our listeners? Any sort of little nuggets of wisdom for them?

Beth 29:16

Oh my goodness. That's a great question. I think I just want people to to communicate and just feel the ability to confidently do so. And I know that that's such a huge ask, and actually, you have to look in certain places for that, and it doesn't grow overnight. But to be able to communicate is just so important with your teams. I want people to feel like they can ask the right questions. I want leaders to ask the right questions that are for their team. And I'm yeah, but I've loved this conversation, I've appreciated your time, and yeah, it's just fabulous. Thank you so much for having me.

Sam 29:54

Thank you. Well, thank you. Do you do you have any books? We always ask our guests for a book recommendation.

Beth 30:01

I really wish I had something clever in my back pocket, but I just don't. But I will I will tell you something which I really love recently because I love to read. Um, we went to a people in communities kind of off-site a while ago. It was huge. And actually, instead of swag, which I think everyone can say they've got so much swag, I've got so many Cisco Ts, and I love them. But instead of the swag this time, our leader went to every single um senior leadership in our team and said, give me a book recommendation. And they bought the book recommendation of that leader, and they all wrote a little note in the book, and we took them away. And the one that I picked up was The Great Alone by Kristen Hannah, and that's just sent me off a complete train with Kristen Hannah. Her books are absolutely loved at the moment, but I I just loved that, and I I love book recommendations, I think there's such power in it. But I'm currently on the the Kristen Hannah show, which doesn't sound necessarily clever, but oh my goodness, so profound, and I just enjoy them so deeply.

Vic 30:56

So I don't know those at all, Beth. So so what's it called? The Great Alone?

Beth 31:01

Alone by Chris. I've actually got a copy of her second book here. Um I started, I've read The Great Alone, the other one's this one, The Nightingale. Um, and then I've also just started reading The Women, but I didn't know about Kristen Hannah until this uh event. And I just I love her writing, I love her books, they're so profound, they touch on real topics in such a in such a clever and intelligent way. So get you'll honestly, if you look at so many reviews, you'll love it.

Vic 31:33

Thank you. Amazing.

Sam 31:35

Oh worry about it great stuff, Ricky.

Vic 31:39

Anything to add every time I get the chance to speak with Beth, I'm just massively inspired. You are such a wonderful role model, and when I first met you, you were early in career. You are so much further down the line to even leaders that have been in their careers for much longer than you. You are such a wise head on on Young Shoulders. It's I I cannot wait to see where your career goes. And I'm I I'm really curious to know what you do want to be known for. I have to say that. Um, because you've just got a shining star from my side. Oh, that's such a cool point.

Beth 32:28

Thank you. So and I'm grateful to you as well for being part of my community and being part of the the the tribe that lifts me up. I I really hope that you feel part of that because I I strongly get that sense from you. And actually just to be part of part of this dynamic team, to be part of Team X, Community X as well, is just such a it's such a privilege. So I take so much from it. And every time I talk to you, I I take something away, I take a learning away. So I'm just really grateful for the time. I love talking to you. And Sam, it's just such a pleasure to meet you. And yeah, I'm really grateful. Thank you so much.

Sam 32:58

Well, great. Thanks for coming on the podcast. You'll have to come back in a in a year or two and tell us where you got to at that point.

Beth 33:03

Maybe then I'll learn what I want to be known for, and I still need to have a think about it. Maybe I'll have an answer for you then. I'm nearly 50.

Sam 33:10

I'm not sure I know when I want to be known for it.

Beth 33:13

Maybe we can have a reflection and before uh we can have a development and performance reflection and we can go through them there.

Vic 33:20

Like it.

Sam 33:22

Great stuff. So thanks very much for being part of our podcast, and thanks to our listeners. Your comments, your subscriptions, and your likes are obviously gratefully received, and we'll see you on the next one.