What shadow do you cast? The power of understanding yourself and the people you work with

Former army major Chris Collett joins the Get Amplified team to share the power of understanding yourself and  how adapting to peoples different workstyle can accelerate your desired outcomes. 

Coming from a former army major with thirty three years of military experience, this  is definitely not soft stuff!

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Transcript

Sam: 0:08

Hi and welcome to Get Amplified, the podcast for tech industry leaders and aspiring leaders, covering topics from keeping up with the pace of change, staying fulfilled in your role, and looking out for the well-being of your team and yourself, brought to you by the Amplified Group. So as always, we're virtual. It's my turn to be up in Manchester. Vicky, I'm assuming you're back in Deepest Darkest Oxfordshire.

Vic: 0:29

I am Sam. Hi.

Sam: 0:30

And Shah, you're as always in the Netherlands. Are you going to surprise us one day and pop in from Brazil or something?

Sia: 0:36

No, definitely the Netherlands. Hi, Sam.

Sam: 0:39

Fantastic. And we've got our guests today, Chris. So you're joining us from an area that I know really well, so Salisbury Plains kind of area. Yep, deepest, darkest wheelchair, but in particular Salisbury. Yeah, great stuff. So Shah, what are we going to talk about on this episode?

Sia: 0:57

Thanks, Sam. On this episode, uh we will reinforce the importance of the power of understanding different personality types, further explaining disk as a personality assessment and how disk is more than an individual personality assessment in the way it relates to teams. And I'm really pleased to introduce our guest today, Chris Colette, who, with his expertise in this area, will help us to discuss the topic in more detail. Vicky and I met Chris a few years ago now at a conference, and not only did we get on immediately with Chris, we were super impressed by his expertise and experiences, and frankly, his general knowledge. This guy can quote books, authors, and inspirational leaders better than anyone I know. So I'm going to hand over to Chris now, and perhaps, Chris, you could give us a little bit of a career history before we get started.

Chris: 1:46

Yeah, yeah. Thanks. Flattered by all of what you've just said there. I'm not sure it's all completely true, but um, yeah. So uh in terms of career history, I joined the army when I was 16 as a very naive young man who didn't really know what was going on.

Sam: 2:04

10 years ago.

Chris: 2:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If only 33 years I did in the end, uh it served all over the world and did what you'd expect for me to do in the military. So so in terms of what I do now, I I I deliver leadership and management training and uh use disk as a profiling system, which I we'll talk about later, I'm sure. But my sort of time in the army, just you deal with people on a daily basis, and I think you very quickly come to realise that the more you understand about people, the more you understand about yourself, the greater relationships and more productive relationships you can have. And you can get, you know, if if if that works well, then people will work for you willingly rather than uh and certainly the initial my initial time in the army, it was more about uh a big stick that people were beaten with in order to, you know, that's what they that's what the so-called good leaders did at the time. Uh now mentality, yeah, yeah, it was, yeah, absolutely. And it wasn't a good thing. I realised some straight away I at five foot five and ten stone wet through when you know I there's no way I was going to be able to wield a big stick with anybody, you have to find a different way. So behaviour and personalities is was an important thing, and I didn't really realise that's what I was doing at the time. It's only in when I think about it now that you know uh the better leaders, the ones that I admired were those who were able to get people to do things they didn't want to do, but through force of personality. Sound sounds like a fantastic experience.

Vic: 3:30

We said on the on the first podcast that we did that we wanted to share things that we wish we'd known 20 years ago, and certainly this is something that the aha moment that went off in the training when we figured out really why why things were like they were in work, and there's one particular example that I wanted to give, which is when I was working at VMware, my job was to bring the new stuff to market in Europe, and I had a colleague who let's call Klaus who his job was to keep the lights on on the old stuff, and out of work we would get on absolutely fine. But you put us in a meeting together and you try and get us on the same page to move things forwards or to change direction, and it was like one of us was talking Chinese and the other was talking Russian, and we just could not get on the same page at all. When I went through this training, the aha moment of now I can completely understand why Klaus and I couldn't speak, and it it was because I was the big picture and being my dominant self and trying to pull everybody along without giving him who was more detail and more conservative in his approach. He wanted to have facts and details and proof that what I was recommending was going to work, and just not having that and not being able to communicate that with him was was the reason why it wasn't anything personal against me, it was I this isn't this isn't making sense to me. But I didn't understand.

Sam: 5:14

You were almost at opposite ends of the spectrum, a clash was almost inevitable.

Vic: 5:19

We were, and I couldn't understand it. And yeah, Sharon would go and have a conversation with him about something, and they'd be on the same page immediately. What is it? Why, why why can this not work? I've since gone back to him and said I think this could work now, and and we've talked it through, and we both absolutely agree that that now we can understand each other's personalities and how we need to approach it. And he said, you know, it was as much him as it was me, it was both of us just having completely different approaches and not really understanding it. So this is really powerful, and I'm absolutely thrilled that Chris is on here to share his wisdom with us because he's got so much experience in this and can explain it so well and has so many stories to tell. So it's great to have him here.

Sam: 6:04

Fantastic. I mean, I'm looking forward to learn learning a bit more about this as well as as we go through. So, um, Chris, if it's okay, I'll I'll I'll ask you a few questions and we'll try and tease out some of the details of what this disc stuff is. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I'll certainly try and help. Fantastic. So, what impact do you think using the personality assessment in the workplace will have? I mean, Vicky's kind of highlighted one particular example, but it must go deeper than that, presumably.

Chris: 6:30

Well, I think fundamentally it goes back to exactly what Vicky said there, where that it fast forward 20 years from the issue when it first manifests itself to having a conversation. That's fundamental to it all, I think. It engenders a conversation. It opens people's eyes and hopefully their ears. So it opens people's eyes into you know what am I like? What makes me tick? What what what are my motivators? What are my stresses? If you can understand what they are in you, you know, it's all part of this you know, emotional intelligence and understanding yourself better. But then, so if it opens my eyes to me, then hopefully it opens my ears to other people, and that's kind of the most important thing. What's it like for other people? What's it like to be you? What's it like to be you on a daily basis? How do I impact on that both positively and negatively? And how can I improve the positivity and reduce the negativity?

Sam: 7:17

So so for big picture people like me and Vicky, it's like seeing how it feels to be on the receiving end of that sort of approach, I suppose.

Chris: 7:26

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. If you could look inside yourself and say, okay, well, what shadow do I cast? We thought I walk in the room. Do people go, I'm dreading this because they're big, bold, and brash, and they're going to dominate and they I'm not gonna be able to get a word in edgeways. And if you can think, actually, do you know what do I how do I make other people feel? How what impact do I have on other? Is there a brilliant young person sat in that room who never says anything? Because I'm so big and bold and brash that that they don't feel they can, and vice versa, if I'm a shrinking violet, how do I get my voice heard? How do what you know? So there's some effort to be made on both sides there, but yeah, first of all, it starts with a little bit of introspection. What am I like?

Sam: 8:06

It's really interesting, isn't it? Because you know, having done 20 odd years of of work and business, you start to intuit some of that stuff. But wouldn't it be really useful to know it up front early days?

Chris: 8:19

Uh absolutely, yeah. If we go back to what Vicky said, if they should have known 20 years ago, actually, let me have a look at myself. How do I come across? Is that having an impact? Are we clashing because we're two Ps in the same pod and we're competing for airspace, and I want to be the one who says everything and we make some allowances for one another, then that's got to create better workplaces and then better relationships and more productive work workspaces.

Sam: 8:43

So yeah. So so how would you how would you most effectively use this program in the workplace then?

Chris: 8:50

Fundamentally, you need high-level buy-in from people. I think there's definitely some merit in leaders set the tone for other people. So if they buy into it, if it's not just seen as another tick box, it's just another exercise that they're going to go through to satisfy uh you know a checklist. I think a weakness in these kind of things is that people will do the report or the profile, they'll read it and then it gets consigned to the sideboard forevermore, it's never used again. Actually, it's something that should be brought out quite regularly, should be you know used and and as a as a learning tool that's uh for continuous improvement and not just something that you read once and then throw away. So it it it requires work and effort and commitment on behalf of everybody, both the team, the individual.

Sam: 9:36

Yeah. I guess it it requires a degree of introspection, which people aren't necessarily keen to keen to do, keen to look at themselves in the mirror. Yeah, not necessarily from a negative standpoint, but just to understand themselves better.

Chris: 9:49

Yeah, but a a profiling system of any description offers the opportunity to do that for it, does the work for you almost because you answer is it answer a series of questions, then it produces something for you to read, and that holds a mirror up. But yeah, you're quite right. It it starts from a standpoint of what am I like? Well, you know, what's the shadow I cast? What what impact do I have on other people? Do I like it? Do I like myself? Do I like the way I, you know, is is it a true reflection of me and do I like what it says?

Sam: 10:17

I I like that. What's the shadow that I cast, Fray is that that sums it up for me, I think. Yeah. Yeah, that should almost be the subtitle for the podcast of a particular episode, I reckon.

Chris: 10:29

I think it's you know, it's not the Jungian shadow, you know, your dark side it's necessarily, it's more about you know, so before you walk in a room, and when you leave that room, what stories do people tell about you? That's your shadow for me. You know, is it are they good? And when you do that little piece of introspection, or if you're looking at yourself in there, you know, when you're in those moments where I guess everybody does it every now and then has a quick look. Do you like it? You know, it if you think the stories people tell you about are positive and they like them, well, great. It enhance them. If they're not, what what are you going to do about it? So that's a sort of first step, really.

Sam: 11:05

But yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes a lot of sense. So is there any potential for misuse with this stuff?

Chris: 11:11

Uh yeah, I like anything like this. You if I don't if it's not when I use the word sold, I don't mean this in a in a fiscal context, but if it if it's not sold to people as something that's worthwhile, they can very they can be flippant about answering the questions. Therefore, like any like any data input, the the data is only as good as the input, or the output is only as good as the input. So if you put rubbish information in, you get rubbish information out. So if people approach it with a I'm not I'm not really bothered by this, I just need to get it out of the way, I'll answer BBB all the way through. Well, the information is going to be skewed slightly. So so yeah, it it it allows me to be able to do that. Yeah, and if we go back to an earlier question about how you best deploy these, well, through a a little bit of education at the start, that this is what we're using, this is why we're using it, and these are the potential benefits if we all buy into it.

Sam: 12:01

Makes sense. So the the tool set that you use is called DISC. Um do you want to maybe give us a bit of background on the tool set itself and the science behind it?

Chris: 12:12

Uh yeah, um so disk has been around for a long, long time, or certainly the understanding that there may be something either environmentally or internally which motivates us to behave in a certain way. But if you fast forward then into the 20th century, Carl Jung was talking about thinking, feeling, sensation, and intuition, which MBTI, another um system, is largely based on. So you know, there it's the people who were recognizing thousands of years ago that there may be some things that influence our behavior, our thinking. Then modern-day disk was first sort of conceived of by a gentleman called William Marston, although he was never really interested in creating a profiling system, it wasn't until 1940 that the first disc profile was was produced. Walter Clark was the first person who's created a disk profile, and the profile is based on two um two dimensions, if you like, uh two axes, if you call it a north and a south axes, and a and an east and west axis. And the north and south axis looks at uh if you you think at the north, it's people who are fast-paced and dynamic, and then the southern end, if you like, is the people who are more moderately paced, and then that's divided across east and west by the the west who are skeptical, questioning, cynical, and you know, more likely to challenge other people. So those in the east who are a bit more accepting, trusting, and receptive. So, what that does, that if you imagine a circle, or it's described as a circumflex by a circle, um, it divides it into four quadrants, and then the disc profile is born out of those four quadrants. And the four quadrants that are described are influence, steadiness, conscientiousness, and uh dominance, and that's the sort of basic model of it. So a way that I do it is imagine a lift scenario. So if you if you conjure an image of your mind of a you stood outside of a lift, and there's somebody stood in front of the lift and they are frantically pressing the lift button like it's going out of fashion and almost damaging it, they're hitting it so hard and muttering under their breath, where's the list? Where's the lift? You could say that's somebody who's coming from the D style, and they're they're want results, they're results-oriented, action-oriented, and I want it now, and I want you know, I'm pressing the button. Why isn't the lift here? So then the lift arrives and the door opens, and the lift is absolutely jam-packed full of people, and there's no room on the lift. And inside there's somebody at the back and they're jumping up and down and saying, Hey, this is a great place to be. Come on in, come and join us. This is brilliant, we're all having a great time in here. And that's somebody perhaps on the influence star who's you're people oriented, they're enthusiastic and optimistic, and there's plenty of room, come on in, even though the lift is full. Then there's somebody stood inside the lift who's sort of looking a bit more quizzical, thinking, Oh, actually, the lift is very full. And there's somebody stood outside, and there's no room for them. I'll tell you what, I'll get off, I can get the next lift, it'll be fine. And so they get off and they offer their space to the pitch to you waiting outside the lift. And that's somebody from the the steadiness style who wants to you know be accommodating and help someone else. And then finally, stood outside the lift, you've got someone with a kit clipboard and a calculator, and they're looking at the lift, and it's absolutely jam-packed, and they've just noticed the safe working load sign on the side of the lift that says, you know, it's uh it's a it's a thousand kilograms, and they're working out the average weight of a person and then deciding, do you know what, I'm not going to get on that lift because I've analyzed the data and it suggests there's a little bit of risk in there. And that and that's the way I kind of remember off pat, if you like, uh the four key styles and some of the traits.

Sam: 15:38

That's brilliant. That really brings it to life. Absolute genius.

Chris: 15:42

What this suggests is that we're an all-am we're an amalgam of all of those four areas. One of the nice things about DISC, I think, is it doesn't say it doesn't pigeonhole one of those four or a or a combination of two will provide us a preference for us, a starting point from where we see the world and how we interact with it.

Sam: 16:00

So so to give our listeners some sort of an idea, maybe let's let's take a well-known figure or two and sort of guess at where they might fit on the in in terms of the uh the disc quadrants. So um I'm putting you on the spot there, so please don't feel that you have to. But you know, could you take Bill Gates and say that he fits into the you know, one particular quadrant or and stick, where is Steve Ballmer fitting fits into another, you know, just to use common examples, or is that a rubbish idea?

Chris: 16:29

Uh well it's not a rubbish idea, but yeah, um yeah, yeah, it's I I should have thought of that before, Andrew. I'm just trying to think. So Donald, Donald Trump.

Sam: 16:37

We didn't give you any opportunity.

Chris: 16:38

No, no, so I yeah, I'm just thinking Donald Trump Trump, where would I put him?

Sam: 16:43

Yeah, that would be interesting. Where would you where would you put him on the disc set?

Chris: 16:48

But my first thought would be he'd be somewhere in the dominance uh scheme there, you know.

Sam: 16:53

I think that probably makes sense for better or worse.

Chris: 16:55

U and towards the left-hand side of it, sort of towards the the skeptical and questioning, the cynical piece as well. But absolutely dominant, you know, he comes across as someone who is fast-paced, he wants things to happen very quickly. Um he is pretty sceptical and questioning about the rest of the world and and uh the people around him. You've got to look at the amount of people that you know, the the attrition rate of his staff would sort of suggest he's he he he lacks a little bit of trust in the people around him. So yeah, I'd say he was uh he was in the dominance. Um but that's not to say that everyone in the dominant sphere is a don is a Donald Trump, he's just a type of person.

Sam: 17:30

Yeah, being being dominant isn't necessarily a negative trait, you just need to understand how to use it and work with it.

Chris: 17:36

Absolutely not, and was that without casting any aspersions on Donald Trump in particular, disc isn't an excuse for poor behaviour. Poor behaviour is poor behaviour. It doesn't matter which which of the four quadrants you find your starting point, poor behaviour is poor behaviour, bad manners are bad manners, and this doesn't seek to excuse any of that. So, no, what whatever your opinion is of Donald Trump or anybody else who might form in that that uh lie in that space. Um, it doesn't excuse poor behavior, excuse poor behaviour, or explain it indeed. Yeah, yeah.

Sam: 18:07

Vicki, did you have something to add there?

Vic: 18:10

I was being restrained, knowing my behaviour type, that I I need to be quiet, and I'm I am working really hard on these podcasts to be quiet, and I think that's actually quite a good example.

Sam: 18:24

That that is a good example, and you're you're doing magnificently well. So, Chris, why did you choose disk particularly? Because you know, you mentioned um you know Myers Briggs and other other similar programs. What attracted you to disc per se?

Chris: 18:40

I think one of the issues I've had with profiling systems that I'd been exposed to in the past, as a as a subject, if you like, during the military, was that they were quite complicated and difficult to remember. Disk is not simplistic, it's pretty simple and it's easy to remember. And that that was sort of its its key thing. I you know, I needed something that I A, I liked. Um B, when I did it, it just was a revelation to me. I I was I was really taken by it, but but also taken by its simplicity. And I also like the fact that it's adaptive, not all systems are adaptive. So it just to explain what that means in terms of disk, it asks a bank of questions in order to try and discern exactly where it thinks you're going to sit in the four profiles and it subdivides that into 12 to become even more accurate. However, if you if you answer questions consistently, then the system in its in simple terms will say, okay, I know where Chris sits. I can place him on the circumflex at this point here. However, if I start to answer questions in an inconsistent manner and it puts some doubt in the system's mind as to, okay, I thought this person was in steadiness, and now they've answered a quite a couple of questions I'm not sure of, it now adapts to questions. And it adapts the questions to say, okay, was that just an anomaly? Was that just yeah, an accidental press of the wrong button or whatever? Or is this person consistently answering inconsistently for the style I thought they were? And it will do that until it's satisfied.

Sam: 20:16

And Vicky Amplified Group have clearly embraced Disk as a concept and as a tool that you use in your consultancy. Have you got anything to add to that, maybe?

Vic: 20:26

We we we're trained in MBTI and DISC, but we always um recommend and prefer disk because it is so simple to use and it's very memorable, and it's easy for our clients to put it into practice because we don't want to provide workshops where everyone has a good day out and then they go back to work and get on with their day job. It's got to be practical and usable. And you know, we're not HR experts, we're the business people, and the fact that we can take this, understand it, and apply it is the power of disk. So that's that's really why we prefer using it.

Sam: 21:05

Brilliant. And I guess to both of you, probably Chris first, I suppose. Um, what makes it different?

Chris: 21:13

Uh all of those things, really. I think fundamentally, because it's simple but not simplistic. And also it's an individual profile that has absolutely obvious application to the team and other people. It's because you're learning about yourself, but then the report and the online stuff goes into well, how can you better how can you create a better workplace? How can you deal better with people from other styles? So it gives you hints and tips of on how what you can do and what to expect from those other people. Because once you've done the profile, you've got the advantage. You you know, you if everybody's done it, well, then you you kind of meet it.

Sam: 21:51

Everybody's got the advantage.

Chris: 21:52

Absolutely, yeah. So I mean, uh you perhaps a useful example is when I first left the military, my boss, uh, his name was Darren Superbloke, and we were friends before anything else, and uh uh it was him who sort of coached me out of the military. We got on well at work and we worked well together, and we kind of recognized we were different, and that there may be some strengths in the fact that we were different, but um, we hadn't realized how different we were until we both did the disc profile. Now I sit right in the in the S in the uh in the steadiness quadrant, and I you know I couldn't be any further into it because that's where I sit comfortably. Darren, by contrast, much like Vicky, sits right at the opposite end of the scale, if you like, in the in the in the D. And um, you know, he could he comes from the D star. When we sat down and rear and worked out, okay, well, how can we make it so we would we meet in the middle? I realized I talked too much. I realized that he wanted fast-paced, quick decisions, he wanted enthusiasm and and and and by contrast, he realized actually, for me, I need time to make decisions, I need time to go away and read. I need somebody to approach me with a cup of tea and chat about things before they get to the hub of the conversation or the nub of the conversation. So, what we did, we both without without talking about it too much, really, we both realized there was a point in the middle at which it would be better if we met somewhere there, and that would make us even more productive and create a better environment. So I did things I would go in in my mind when I had a conversation with Darren, I would go with a bullet point conversation in my head. So, you know, this is the this is the issue, these are the three options, this is what my preferred option. But can you let me know by tomorrow? And so he's getting that dynamism that he wanted, and by the same token, he he would he would come with a cup of coffee and he would chat, and then he would get to what he wanted me to do. So we we met in the middle and it created a much better working environment. But most importantly, what it did, it got us around the table talking. And and so, in terms of a micro team, we we worked much, much better together, and we not not made allowances, we just recognised the differences that we had, the the benefits in those differences as well. So he would come rushing in with these great ideas and fantastic projects, and he was bubbling over with enthusiasm, and I'd be almost overwhelmed by it and not say a great deal because that's how that's how I am. He would go away, and then I would think, hmm, okay, well, I think he's gonna need X, Y, and Z. So I'll just prepare this on the on the on the back of it. And then two or three days later, he might come back and say, Well, oh, actually, I think we need X, Y, and Z. And because of the nature of the way I deal with things, I'd done it already.

Sam: 24:39

You you'd have that ready for him, yeah.

Chris: 24:41

Yeah, so it it we complimented one another, but it the comp the complementary element to it was gr vastly enhanced once we both understood where our preferences lay.

Sam: 24:51

And it creates a stronger team if you if you do that.

Chris: 24:54

Absolutely. This this there's a there's the opportunity for a great deal of misunderstanding. So if you come to me with an idea, I might say, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Well, that doesn't come across as burrowing over with enthusiasm.

Sam: 25:06

I am enthusiastic about it, but the way I show it, you're your enthusiastic is different from somebody else's enthusiasm.

Chris: 25:12

Absolutely, yeah. It's not right, it's not wrong, and you know, it's just the way that I do it. And once you come to understand how other people deal with things, how they how they process information, the team becomes much better. Absolutely. You know, yeah, yeah.

Sam: 25:28

Talking of enthusiastics, Charles' waving at me enthusiastically. I think she has something, something to add at this point.

Sia: 25:34

I am, and funny enough, I'm exactly as Chris just described, you know, I'm not the one that sounds enthusiastic, even if I am inside. And I just wanted to really strengthen the point that Chris has made there. From um a complementary point of view, Vicky and I are very much on different sides of the disc. So Vicky is a DI, and even though I have a D, I'm a DC. So Vicky comes bounding in with all of these great ideas, and I'm just I just actually recoil a little and think like, how can I turn this into something practical? How can I actually structure this? And yes, I have some skeptical in me. So how is this gonna work? Will it work? So we very much complement each other with our personality types, but before we we had this uh understanding, we we didn't know why you know that worked so well, but now we do, so it's just such a powerful tool to have the knowledge. You know, that whole thing, uh Francis Bacon knowledge is power, goodness, in this situation, it so is because it can help when you're in a team. You know, I I have an example where somebody who was very much in the S, like Chris is, you know, we never actually turned around and said, What do you think? But goodness they had so many great ideas that could have made and accelerated the projects we were working on enormously, but we didn't take the time to think, well, why is this person not saying anything and what can they contribute? So that's where the the power of this tool comes in. So I just kind of wanted to make that point, and I was jumping up and down, as you say. Desperate to make that point.

Sam: 27:19

That's as enthusiastic as I think I've I've ever seen.

Vic: 27:22

There we go. Sam, you asked me the question earlier: why do we like disc? We like disc because uh of how powerful it is for everything we've just described there, but also to Chris's point, it's about the power of disc within a team because you do a team disc map and you see where everybody else is around the disc, the penny just drops that you can understand why people behave like they do in the team, and so many workshops we do. And in fact, I've I've got one coming up on Thursday, and I can tell from the way that they filled in their assessment, it's gonna be a team of two halves. I've not even observed the meeting yet because we've got people that come from the D style who are very happy, they think their team is working wonderfully, and then you've got people that are S's and I's or coming from those styles, and you can feel the frustration because they're not able to voice their opinions because they're being dominated by the people that are talking too much that are D's, and we've seen this over and over again.

Sam: 28:30

One observation I'd make from sitting here from my point of view, you know, I would probably consider myself to be coming much more from the from the dominance side of things. Um, in a team context, you know, you can use that that dominant characteristic to make opportunities for those who are less forthcoming to speak by I suppose almost chairing the meeting or managing the meeting in such a way that you make sure that there's airtime for those who wouldn't be so confident in sharing their opinion. I guess that that's maybe a reasonable example of the team dynamics of the disc profile.

Vic: 29:01

It's a brilliant example, and it is one of the things that I think we bring more benefit to teams because you know, part of what we're trying to do is give everybody around the table a voice. You know, the work that we do in the boardroom, we talk about robust debate and diversity on teams. That's because everybody around that boardroom table needs to have a voice, it can't just be a dominant character, and actually that's called out in the code of governance. So you're absolutely bang on with saying that. That is the role of the chair, yeah, exactly.

Sam: 29:35

Yeah, even if you pick a board that is of incredible diversity, if you don't give everybody within it airtime, you're failing.

Chris: 29:42

Can I just uh pick on something that could lead people down a pathways? Not all leaders come from the dominant style. There's there's a danger that people think actually that's where leadership emanates from, and that's clearly not the case. We look throughout history, there are people who come from all over, and and you know, I guess we would have all worked with with and for people who come from one of the other uh three styles. So, but there is a tendency to think actually that's where leaders will come from, and that isn't the case. The skill comes in, whoever the leader is, if they are if they emanate from the dominant style, is recognizing actually I need to keep my voice down a little bit. I need to exactly as you just described and Vicky's just described, bring in the shrinking war violets into the conversation because they have something to say. Conversely, those leaders, and you know, dare I say I was a I was a bit of a leader in the military in at times. I have to then come out of my comfort zone and draw people in and make sure everybody gets a say and cool the more boisterous, dominant people down a little bit in order to provide the environment where everyone thinks that they've got an equal voice, or not everyone thinks, that everyone does absolutely have an equal voice. And that's the skill of the leader, and the skill of the leader in from whatever whatever style they emanate from, deploying their skills to best effect, but recognizing that they might have to step out of their comfort zone and go into one of the other three styles to welcome everybody into it.

Sam: 31:07

That makes sense. Thanks for that. Really useful observation. So, what would be the key takeaways then as to why an organization should consider using a tool like disc?

Chris: 31:21

I suppose they've got to want to get better. It has to be a genuine desire to create a better working environment, to create better teams, and a happier, healthier, more productive workplace. So they've got to want to do it. That's sort of a key takeaway. If it's just a tick-box exercise, well, you know, it's not a complete waste of time because there will be people who will take it and run with it. But yeah, there has to be a buy-in across the piece if you can. Um, but it's it can create greater understanding of the people you work with, and if you want and greater understanding of yourself, that's its first point, is you understand yourself better. Then in understanding yourself better, that helped that opens the door to you to be able to understand the people you work with better, and that in turn creates a more productive, more friendly, good place to work. And who wouldn't want to go, you know, go to somewhere where it's a good place to be? And and this can help engender that really important.

Sam: 32:20

I guess it's it's there's an angle about how feeling that your voice is being heard and that your opinion is valid is really important for your overall well-being at work, perhaps.

Vic: 32:33

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and actually, I think that's that was one of our motivations to get into doing what we're doing in the first place, was seeing so many people at work feeling stressed, and actually having people in my family who felt so stressed at work because they felt like they didn't have a voice and they weren't being heard, and politics and how much that impacts it because decisions are being made without people feeling like their their opinions and their experience are being considered, everyone feels wants to feel like they're contributing to homework, and I think being able to almost provide a more level playing field is what helps to relieve the stress.

Chris: 33:18

Well, mental health and well-being is what you know, if you're a leader, a manager, a co-worker, a peer, a friend, why would you not be interested in the mental health and well-being of the people around you? If people are healthy, and by health I mean physically and mentally, there is no health without mental health. If people are healthy and happy and they're they want to go to work because where their place of work is a place where they feel valued, is a place where they feel respected, where they do have a voice, where they do have an opinion which is counted for and is welcomed and asked for, then you know that's got to be a better place to work. That's got to be a team that is functioning really, really well. But mental health and well-being, you know, when you look at the statistics of how many people are unwell, and a lot of it is caused by workplace stress. If we can understand ourselves and understand the people around us better, and we make effort to change the environment so that it is a friendly and nice place to be, as well as productive. At the end of the day, if we go to work for a reason, then that's that's got to be good for all of us. And if you if people want to be at work, they're not looking for excuses to to go and to to not be there, and also if they're you know that there's a problem at the moment, if people are unwell, mentally unwell, they'll in an awful lot of cases they will ring in and say they've hurt their back or their leg. Yeah, if you've got an environment where people can be open, honest, and frank and vulnerable with one another and say to one another, actually, do you know what I'm feeling unwell, but it's because of work, it's stress, and this is what's stressing me out. And or the behaviours of certain people are stressing me out. If you've had that conversation already, if you've had created an open and honest dialogue where people can come out of their shell if you emanate from the the S style and talk to somebody else and say, Do you know what the things that are going on and the things that are doing are affecting me adversely and it's affecting my productivity? Let's have a conversation about how we change it. You know, why would you not want to be in a place where you could do that? It seems to me that that's you know, that's where we'd all like to be.

Sam: 35:17

Absolutely. That that that makes an awful lot of sense, and we'll be cut we'll be covering uh more about mental health in a future episode, right, Vicky?

Sia: 35:26

Yes, we will. Yeah.

Sam: 35:27

Sha, over to you.

Sia: 35:29

Okay, so I'm going to again introduce our hero man. So at Amplified Group, we have an image, uh, a stick man, um, a bit of fun, uh just like us, a bit more relaxed, and he's called Hero. And it's not about um us being heroes, but making our clients heroes. And so I kind of like to put um our guests on the spot a little bit and ask them uh who their hero is. Before I do that though, Chris, I just want to say today I think you're my hero. You've been amazing. I've really, really enjoyed listening to you and your experiences. So thank you very much uh for that. But uh, so there we go, Chris. Let's uh let's hear from you. Who would you say would be your hero? And it could be anybody from a very simple thing, like you know, me this morning handing over my 11-month-old puppy to the dog walker and thanking her for taking him out of my hat off my hands, or somebody that's inspired you over the years. So, uh, what what's uh your thoughts?

Chris: 36:28

Uh it's a really difficult question to answer because I don't generally have have heroes, it's lots of people I admire. But I I was thinking about it that just then, and actually I'm going to be slightly controversial and I'm gonna give you a thing which is my hero, and that's a thing called uh it's a group of people called 18 Platoon. Um and 18 Platoon, if you I suppose if I if you push me and narrow it down to a hero, it'd be the the the platoon commanders, a gentleman called Sidney Jerry. Sidney Jerry was 19 when he was thrashed into in 1944 was sent to Normandy to take over 18 Platoon. 18 Platoon fought valiantly, they had done throughout the war, and at you know, in 1944, Sidney Jerry as a 19-year-old was sent to command these men who had fought through World War II and were a really close-knit team of people. And at 19 he took over and became a phenomenal leader of these men. He he led by example, he led through force of personality because he was 19 and naive and young and wasn't really sure of things, and he was leading people who were battle-hardened, who'd fought and and some of whom had you know had died in in fighting. So the platoon had had morphed into different things, and he was able to galvanize them together, he was able to take over at such an early age to recognise the strengths and the areas for development in the platoon, and to convince these people that this boy of 19 was somebody who should be listened to. And he won the military cross in the end, which is no mean feat. But it's the it wasn't just him. He wrote a great book called 18 Platoon. It's in so my hero is the platoon, although it's Sydney Jarry who led them. They they were just a phenomenal team of people who cared about one another, who fought alongside and did things for one another in the face of adversity that you know that would leave most of us in tears, you know, or or wondering if we could do the same thing. So 18 Platoon would be my hero.

Sam: 38:28

Well, thanks, Chris. That was uh that's a a brilliant example and really enjoyed uh chatting with you today. And I I've certainly learned quite a lot. Uh interesting to think about where I would be on that that circumflex. I've also learned the new word. Circumflex is just such a magnificent word. I'm really pleased with that one. Every day's a school day. So thank you for that. Really, really appreciate it. Um appreciate your insight. Uh so thanks for listening to Get Our Amplified from the Amplified Group. If you liked it, please be sure to subscribe, and we'll see you next time.