There is a catalyst to sales and marketing alignment - Andy Bacon

The team are joined by Andy Bacon, Strategic Marketing Consultant, Mentor and Speaker to discuss the challenges when sales and marketing are not aligned.

Andy shares how account based marketing (ABM) can be a catalyst to unite them as one team.

Amplified Sales and Marketing Alignment - Take your Team Speed Check 

Link to Andy’s enlightening article
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/andybacon_abm-accountbasedmarketing-b2bmarketing-activity-6631482396912955392-DxBp

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Transcript

Sam 0:10

Welcome to Get Amplified, the podcast for tech industry leaders and aspiring leaders, covering topics from keeping up with the pace of change, staying fulfilled in your role, and looking out for the well-being of your team and yourself. This podcast is brought to you by the Amplified Group. As I say every time we're virtual I'm at home in Buckinghamshire, Vicky's in the deepest, darkest Oxfordshire, Sia's over in the Netherlands. So, Sia, what's uh what's today's episode about?

Sia 0:34

Okie dokie. Well, our topic today or our episode is going to focus on team alignment, uh, in particular, sales and marketing alignment. And the guest that we have today is Andy Bacon, and um, I will do an acronym alert or uh whatever we say, because uh we did say at the start of this that we weren't going to do any acronyms, but Andy is going to talk about account-based marketing because that's where his expertise is. He's a consultant, a marketing consultant. I've known Andrew Andy for a long time. Gosh, I nearly called you Andrew then. I've never done that. Careful, careful. Um, and uh Andy's yeah, Andy's pretty much an expert in this area, but just a bit of background. Uh, I actually um hired Andy's expertise when Andy ran uh his own agency back in the day. And I'm not a marketeer, I'm not a marketing expert, and so Andy certainly is qualified um to have this conversation with us today. So uh Andy, maybe you could just give us a little bit of background or talk, tell us about yourself, and then we'll go into some questions.

Speaker 3 1:45

Thank you, Siaron. Yeah, background. Um, um well, I'm a marketing graduate, and uh bit peculiarly, uh, when I left uni, I decided it would be a good idea to go into sales. I think at the time it was because I wanted a fancy car. But ironically, that period I spent in sales right at the beginning, a couple of years direct selling, really did show me what the cold face was all about. Uh in hindsight, it was probably one of the two most valuable years I spent prior to focusing up on my marketing. So I was client-side for a while and then started uh my agency uh actually in the 92 recession. And I didn't really, I sort of did it as a bit of a space between trying to find another job, but carried on doing it for 25 years. Um built a lovely team of 15 of us, uh, working with some wonderful clients, just like Sharon. Uh we had a good time. And then I came out of that a couple of years ago and was invited to run an ABM program because we've been doing a fair bit of ABM with some of our clients. All started when one of them came to us and said we're we're trying to implement the serious decisions framework for ABM. Can you can you help us? And I like most agencies, you say yes and then worry about it afterwards. But that that sort of taught me quite a lot, um, and we won an award for that piece of work. So um fantastic. Yeah, no, it's been um been good. So it's uh there's a handful of us really. I'm not the only expert. Um, I don't like to call myself an expert, but there's a handful of consultants outside of the agencies, and we're all very busy. So um long may it continue.

Sam 3:24

Fantastic stuff. So we've had the uh the acronym uh explained, but I think we probably need to explain to our listeners, and I must admit, me, what account-based marketing actually is.

Speaker 3 3:37

Yeah, so um there's a number of definitions, but I suppose the simplest one and the shortest one is sort of treating a customer as a market in its own right. So rather than focusing upon a market, you're literally aligning all of your sales and marketing resources into uh into a specific account or or group of accounts, bringing all those resources to bear to uh really improve the quality of that relationship, grow the account, protect it, or or or even win a new one in the same sector or or group. So it's it's a focusing. But um what what when I do an immersion into ABM, everyone says, you know, what where's this come from? It's the new paradigm. Actually, ABM's been around arguably since around 2003. So it's been quite a few years actually. It's only just in the last half a dozen, five or six that that that it's really sort of taken off. Um, but before ABM, actually, if you look at the principles of uh key account management and the definition that Malcolm McDonald uses, uh really understanding the needs of your customers and and and talking to those specific needs, really ABM is just the marketing side of uh sales key account management. The two are sort of opposite sides of the same coin. So the principles have been around a long, long time.

Sam 5:01

Are there any particular questions you get asked when you talk about this stuff?

Speaker 3 5:05

Yeah, quite a few. I think I think the main one is will it work? Uh how do we make it work? Obviously. Uh how am I gonna how I'm gonna make it work within my organization? I I think unfortunately I spend a lot of my time sort of dispelling myths, and I think the there's a lot of I won't say false information, but if anyone hears about account account-based marketing, you know, the natural thing is to do a search. So they'll go and do a quick search on Google, and one of the reasons why ABM has really taken off is that the the volume of tech vendors uh stateside that have brought out platforms and Martech that is ABM centric or you know, is there to deliver and help deliver an ABM program at scale. So unfortunately, a lot of people that are first you know entering the world of ABM believe that it's a it's a technology when in when in fact it it isn't. The technology is there to help you scale, but ABM is a strategy and it's a way of going to market. So, in terms of questions, is the the first one is well, what technology platform should I buy? And and my normal answer is well, you don't actually need to buy anything. Clearly, there is some technology that will help. And obviously, you know, when am I going to see results? Uh, how quickly results is is is the is the key one. Hence my uh value pyramid.

Sam 6:32

So, what do you answer when people say, When will I see results? What's what what should you come back? I think I presume that's a how long is a piece of spring thing.

Speaker 3 6:41

Yeah, I mean it's about managing like anything new, it's about managing expectations, um, particularly you know upwards. Uh so obviously a client would be uh typically a sort of senior marketing uh person, maybe a CMO, and and then clearly they've got to manage expectations upwards, sideways, and downwards. And normally we say, look, if you know if this is a strategic ABM program and you're dealing with high value strategic accounts, what's your typical sales cycle look like? And most particularly, you know, if we took the IT sector as an example, they'd say, from top of funnel to actual final conversion, it could be anything between you know nine to 16 months, you know, up to a year on average. So we basically say, Well, you know, we're not in the business of shortening the sales cycle, we're just about making you more productive and increasing you know the value of relationship. So if your sales cycle is 12 months, a typical ABM program will begin to deliver results within that you know the same period of time.

Sam 7:47

So a lot of this stuff seems to be about aligning sales and marketing and making them point in the in the in the same direction, I suppose, working together, two sides of the same coin, as it were. Is that a fair observation?

Speaker 3 7:59

Absolutely, absolutely. Uh I remember the first ABM pro ABM conference I went to, I think every single presentation, keynote, and all the breakout sessions, everyone was saying, you know, from the experienced practitioners that were giving case studies, that you know, for for ABM to work, takes sales and marketing alignment are the top three things to uh to really create. And like any form of transformation, you need to bring everyone, all the stakeholders along on the journey with you. Um, and I think that's the biggest challenge, but it's also the biggest win because you know, I'm as I'm sure uh most people will appreciate, you know, there's been this big divide between sales and marketing for many years. Yeah, neither really understand what the other does.

Sam 8:50

And and and and each commonly thinks they're the most important of the pair.

Speaker 3 8:54

Yeah, I think they're running to their own programme, they're running to you know, sales have got their mission, they're chasing a number, portally driven. Marketing talk about, you know, they're well, you know, in in some circles that they're described as the colouring in department. Um, they just do all the nice, pretty stuff. Um, and you know, uh that doesn't that that's that's got some foundation. Uh from a sales perspective, you can see they don't really understand all this or all the TLAs that um uh marketing use. Uh they just they're interested in the bottom line, aren't they?

Sam 9:29

And you've written an article on this subject that I believe we're gonna share with our listeners. Is that right? Do you want to give us a sort of a precy of that article, perhaps, please?

Speaker 3 9:39

So the challenge is that demand gen is in many instances broken. It's not delivering the results that everyone wants. So ABM is often perceived as a silver bullet, you know. Oh, it works, let's try that, let's jump out of the frying pan into the fire, um, and let's let's let's implement ABM because it works. Um, unfortunately, they they will normally use demand gen type KPIs to measure their ABM, which is often quarterly driven. You know, marketing are targeted to deliver X number of leads per quarter, um, and that's what that's what they're driven by. And what's really important is ABM's given its own KPIs, which are are different. So, what I'm trying to do with the value pyramid is really explain to people that this is a journey, it involves some transformation. And if you're going to expect results in Q1, you're gonna be a little bit disappointed. So, I've created the value pyramid to try and explain that there are value along the way in any form of transformation journey, there is value, and if you just aim for the top of the pyramid, i.e., the the final bottom line and result, the hard KPI of how much business have I created as a result of this, where's the growth? You're you missed the point. So the value of pyramids there to sort of help uh clients manage expectations and demonstrate value throughout this process.

Sam 11:15

That makes sense, and uh Ricky and Shah will share that in the show notes, will we?

Sia 11:21

Yes, um, we're definitely going to share it in the show notes. You've got a few things to share in the show notes, and um, this one, this article is is really interesting, and you'll see as the article goes through, as Andy mentioned there about the value pyramid, it there's some really good tips and hints in there, but it's like anything, even the process that we advocate at Amplified Group, it is about literally that a process. You have to start somewhere, and you have to start at the bottom of that pyramid, as we do with trust, to get to the top. So, um, yeah, it's a it's a really great article.

Sam 11:56

And you mentioned something, Andy, about in your article about Mayfly Marketing, which amused.

Speaker 3 12:03

It was an acronym I developed when I was writing the article actually.

Sam 12:06

Oh, it's an acronym.

Speaker 3 12:07

I thought it was I was trying to put, I was trying to, you know, I love a good uh I like a good analogy. Um yeah, I think Mayfly Marketing is the symptom of demand, Jen. So because everyone is so heavily measured these days, and marketing, you know, as much as as anyone, there's this feeling that we've got to get content out. We're driven, you know, one of their KPIs is you know, how many how many bits of communication did you did you distribute, what content did you produce, what have you done? So it's very much kind of activity focused. And therefore, you know, the the reason I uh adopted Mayfly is that um I don't know about anyone else, but I'm a I'm a one of my part-time hobbies is a is a fly fisherman, and there's something called Duffer's Week, and literally uh a week in May, the Mayfly emerges, and literally the Mayfly hatches, uh breeds, and dies literally within a few hours. And this is why all the fish go mad, because there's so much food to be had. And really, that that life cycle really sort of resonated with me because that's you know what I see happening in marketing. You know, when I started my career, we would spend you know a few weeks, maybe months, developing a campaign with content that may last, you know, uh quite a few months. Nowadays, it's obviously very different. You know, content literally is created today, takes a few hours, is distributed, shared across social channels, and and is gone within with literally within a few hours. And therefore, you see this situation where marketing are always struggling to sort of keep up this level, this sort of conveyor belt of of content and messaging into the market, hence you know, the the analogy. But the problem with that is is that you're always looking for the new story, you're always looking for the new content, you're always looking for the new angle, and you haven't got time.

Sam 14:07

Everybody everybody wants something shiny, yeah.

Speaker 3 14:10

Yeah, so you just get this sort of mass of content, this noise, um, and and of course, quality must be sacrificed for the need of speed, and therefore, I don't believe that there's the opportunity to really make sure that the messages are resonating, that they're relevant to the audience. Do we really understand the audience as well? We're just more interested in producing content, and and that has sort of eroded the quality. Um, and what ABM does is is really help overcome that, and because we're beginning to think more long term rather than short term.

Sam 14:49

I think I think that makes sense. So, what's the first step?

Speaker 3 14:54

So the foundational layer of the of the pyramid, and where I uh when I'm consulting to clients, it's an area that we spend quite a lot of time on, is this sales and marketing alignment. And I think one of the first things about that is really understanding the difference between alignment and buy-in. So, quite often I'll talk to a client and I say, Look, you know, how how how have you managed your stakeholders in sales? What view oh, I've got they're all fully aligned, Andy, it's all great, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what they actually mean is that they've had a you know, they've had a chat with sales, they've got them into a room and they've told them they've got this shiny new toy, and of course, and we're gonna spend a few marketing dollars on on your key accounts. Well, no one in sales is gonna turn around and say no, thank you. So they go, Yeah, no, we'll we'll have some of that. That's that's great, off you go, carry on. And they confuse buy-in, which is fairly low commitment at this stage, with alignment. And my point about alignment is that it takes a very long time to build, you can destroy it in minutes, um, and it can be quite difficult to really know how much of it you've got. Um, and that's why when I first sort of came across what Amplified were doing in terms of this, you know, the five behaviors of a cohesive team, it really, really resonated with me. Of ah, here's an approach that I I can begin to explain to clients, uh, educate them a little bit so that they can see what alignment and real teamwork's all about.

Sam 16:29

Because I guess if you're if you're doing this, you know, particularly in the tech industry, which is where I think most of our listeners will likely be from, it's not just simple sales and marketing alignment. You've got channel sales, direct touch sales, pre-sales, tech, and all of that sort of thing. So alignment across all of that, A is hard work, and B is really, really important, I guess.

Speaker 3 16:52

Absolutely. And and it's about bringing everyone on the journey. Most ABM, you know, it works very well in channel, but most organisations in the tech sector will be looking at sort of inside sales teams or their key account strategic account managers first to really begin to implement, you know, embed some best practice so that the principles of ABM can then be cascaded out to channel through channel partners.

Sia 17:21

Channel need to be seen as that same team in this case, right? They absolutely are part of that team, you know, and so to not think about them and how you align them at the same time as your own internal team is a massive mistake. So um it's about having that three-way in some case aligning as is your internal sales and marketing aligned, but also are your partners aligned. And I I've got a great story. When I was working at Citrix, I worked within the partner programs team. So that was my my role, right? To educate uh partners, to make sure partners knew about the new programs and indeed the new products. And we were just about to launch a new product, and so at that time, a partner had to be certified on a product to be able to sell it, so they could not sell a product unless they were a certain level, if they were a gold partner, or indeed if they'd had those uh that that training.

Sam 18:21

So not uncommon in the industry, that kind of arrangement, right?

Sia 18:24

Exactly, yes, because you need those partners to be trusted advisors to the customers, right? You need them to know what they're talking about.

Sam 18:30

A certain quality bar that people need to get to.

Sia 18:33

Precisely, Sam, exactly. So there's me busily thinking, great, new products coming out. Um, under NDA, I can already start to train a couple of partners, but I can then open it up to a few partners later. And then I get the the marketing director bounding in the door, very happy with herself, telling me that she's met her lead goals for the new product already. So I'm all excited for her and said, Great, what were your lead goals? Well, my lead goal was 800 leads, and I got 800 leads, and I said, That's fantastic. I've got three partners that can sell that stuff, literally three partners. So that lead goal and those leads could have been this basically thrown down the toilet at that stage, right? Because not her fault, my fault, her fault.

Sam 19:20

Yeah, because you had no sales team effectively to execute something.

Sia 19:23

No, because we weren't aligned. We absolutely weren't aligned. I have not gone to her and said, Yeah, these are this is my department's goal for this product, and she had not had that conversation. Yeah, so it you know, alignment cuts across all of the teams and cuts across your partners as well. So if you if you aren't aligned, as as Andy quite rightly said earlier, then uh then you can fall into lots of traps.

Speaker 3 19:50

And when the rubber hits the road like that, what does marketing think they're actually going to be delivering? And what do sales really want? You know, and and it would they much rather have 12 really good ones than 800 of you know, someone that's just waved a flag at some point.

Sam 20:05

We I mean we saw we saw that a lot, you know, the quality of of leads coming through from the vendor side was was variable. Um you know, some some would be really well qualified, decent opportunities, some would be somebody who's logged who's logged their details on your website and downloaded a brochure or something. Um you know, it it was definitely variable in terms of quality, which I guess makes sense.

Speaker 3 20:33

Well, marketing are chasing a number, you know, that they've got to produce a number of leads, be it 800 or 1000 or whatever, you know, back to my earlier point.

Sam 20:42

They've just got fun and stuff, isn't it?

Speaker 3 20:44

Yeah, just got to hit a number. What it looks like, whether it's a good, bad, or a different lead, is largely irrelevant. I've hit my target. Yeah, yeah. And they wouldn't actually know the difference because they don't talk to one another and they don't share the same goals in terms of what you know sales nearly what an real opportunity looks like, you know, the pre whole pre-qual process is often flawed. That's when you get these big, big gaps, and then you get this loss of trust because you know you quite often see when I when I do a session around alignment between sales and marketing, and you look at the the frustrations that that exist uh that undermine trust. And if you know, if we agree that trust is the foundation of everything, it's because you know um marketing will say, Well, sales never follow up on my leads. But of course, sales aren't going to follow up on the leads because they're gonna be measured by it, and if they they don't believe that the leads are any good, they they'll be then criticized for not converting a poor quality lead. So it's better not to go there in the first place. Simple really. Um really interesting.

Sam 21:54

It's not rocket science, so we're all agreed. We're all agreed on the importance. It's just the question is what we do about it. People get siloed, don't they?

Speaker 3 22:03

They get that.

Sam 22:05

Yeah, well, exact that was exactly what I was going to ask. You know, where do you start? How do you know if you're in in alignment?

Speaker 3 22:12

Yeah.

Sam 22:13

Where do you start? How do you measure it?

Speaker 3 22:16

I think I think I mean this is where obviously Vic Vicky and Charl will will step in, but in my experience, you know, uh it's about the quality of conversations that you can have, about the honesty. And I think, you know, when I'm in a in a session with sales and marketing in the same room, and we come out of the session and marketing and go, you've got the meeting out of your hand, how did you do it? And I said, Well, you know, it's about really just demonstrate, it's simple, it's demonstrating empathy and asking them the right questions. Salespeople love to talk about their challenges, they like to be, they like to be listened to, they like to be understood. They, you know, for the first time, it's the opportunity to say, you tell us, you explain to us what your challenges are in this account. What what what are you trying to achieve strategically? What are your next steps? How can we help you? And that's music to their ears because normally what they're trying to do is implement a marketing program that you know, you've seen it, heard it, you know, marketing produced sales enablement deck, which sales are expected to implement with in you know in a face-to-face meeting or whatever with their clients. Lap up like it's manner for manner for and then and then and then they get criticized because uh they they change it. Marketing gets you know exasperated. Well, you've changed the deck, you know, you've changed all the messaging. And and sales will say, well, yeah, because it's a load of rubbish, you know, it doesn't actually talk to the issues that I have, you know, the type of conversations that I have with my clients. So I think there's an enormous amount of, you know, to build the trust, you have to demonstrate that you really understand their challenges, so you really get under the skin of what they're trying to do, you show empathy for that, and you build your programs and activities and what you're trying to do to meet those specific challenges. And once sales begin to see you, A, listening, um, and B actually, you know, coming up with the value of the content, whatever it may be, to address those challenges, they can go, all right, okay, now they're listening. Uh and and you then can build upon that uh over time. The biggest problem is that people go into meetings and they agree a load of stuff and then they go walk out of the meeting and then they go carry on doing what they were doing before. Um, so what I will often then do after the session is then sit down and start with the marketing team, you know, and say, right, what did you understand by that? And quite often they'll go, Well, I think this, that, and the other. And I said, No, no, no, no, no, you're going back to your comfort zone, you're going back to what you know. You've got to actually put yourselves in the in the shoes of the of the of the other people in the room. If you if you don't believe what they've said, then challenge them there and then say I don't under you know, be honest, say I don't understand, or you know, have this uh positive conflict to to to really bottom out anything that you don't you don't believe or you don't understand.

Vic 25:07

Yeah, there's and we've we've put a podcast together on this, but the importance of clarity. So so often we see people leave meetings with ambiguity hanging in the air because they haven't really they don't actually want to know the answer, so they don't ask the question. And it's really critical to be able to ask those questions because the ambiguity, it just that's that's how silos form, that's how people go off and do almost opposing activities.

Speaker 3 25:40

But they're scared, aren't they?

Vic 25:42

They're scared, yes, they don't want to hear, and and it's actually people being brave that that enable that robust discussion and to uncover the things that they need to be able to fix. You know, we we've uh we've talked about the fact that you can't fix secrets, you need to know everything and put it all out on the table. And I know Shah doesn't like me using the term we are elephant hunters, but that's what we do. We go and find the elephants, put them on the table, and and create the right environment that's the safe environment to to discuss it. But something else that that um you mentioned a little while ago that just triggered something that was such a great example of lack of sales and and and marketing alignment was I remember being at a kickoff in Vegas with I don't know, maybe there were 10,000 people in the room, and the CMO taught all of us at the same time a whiteboard, and I I'm trying to remember it's really that memorable actually what this whiteboard was about, but it was a whiteboard that how you talked about all of the different offerings that we had, and then we went back to our countries after the kickoff and back to our offices, and we were all tested on how to deliver this whiteboard, and you had to deliver it, and you were tested on using the right colour pens to draw the right bits of this diagram. Now I remember sitting there, um, and I was sitting next to one of the senior leadership team, and it was in disbelief that had this CMO ever been a meta customer, because you don't deliver you you understand the technology, you understand what you need to deliver, and then you adapt it to every single customer because they they've all it's about understanding customer needs, and to be to be putting this podcast together with you, Andy, that you know, when you first came and and we talked about ABM and the value of ABM, my respect for marketing went back up again. It's like this is this is what marketing should be doing, it's about understanding the customer and then tailoring it and working with the sales team about what they're trying to address and how to how you fix customer solutions. So sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now.

Sam 28:08

No, Vicky, while I've got you uh on on the uh on the focus of of the conversation. You guys have got a tool that can be deployed to look at this alignment thing and make sure it's all in order?

Vic 28:20

Measurement. Sharon loves her measurement. We love our measurement actually. Because how do you know if something's improved if you haven't been able to measure it?

Sam 28:29

Yeah, yeah.

Vic 28:30

Um, so and actually, um this really came as a prompt from working with Andy to say, right, how how can I, what tool have you got then I can go and measure alignment in the clients that I'm working with? Because we need a place to start. And and where do we start? Well, it's great. I mean, you know, Microsoft talk about these tools as turning opinion into fact, and and that's where we want to start. So we have created an alignment assessment which measures three different areas, and those three different areas are purpose. So, do we have a common goal? So, this isn't marketing's you know, number you know, what's their funnel, and sales have we hit our number? It's what is the common goal? Do we have a purpose? The second part is are we clear on that? So, do we have absolute clarity that we understand where North is, what we're heading for, what the goal is, what our role is in that, and how we're going to go about it. Do we have clarity on that? And then the third part, and the critical part that Andy um has mentioned several times, and what we base our business on, is is there the trust between sales and marketing that they're able to do those things or those things that we've just discussed? Are there is there trust in the room and are the relationships there so that they can have that robust debate and say what they really think rather than sales saying what marketing wants to hear and marketing saying what they think sales want to hear? It's about that honesty and the ability to put everything on the table, have that heated debate, and come up with a joint plan. So, going back to the process of you need to weigh into buy-in, if both sides of the team have and it's one team have done that, then they're much more likely to be successful. So, and and I'm sure Andy can can add some more into that, but but so we've created a team alignment tool that measures in summary purpose, so common goals, clarity, so everyone is clear on what they're doing, and then do they have the trust and the relationships to succeed? So, so that's the assessment. And Shah, I'm sure you'd like to add something more in how people would would go about that.

Sia 31:08

Do you know what? I was just sitting here thinking, how on earth could I add more to that? It was um very, very clear. So well done, you. Um no, I mean I I think just from a practical point of view, just how do people get this? Again, Sam mentioned earlier that we're going to be able to put on Andy's article on on I keep wanting to say show tunes. I don't know why. I don't know why either. It's not it's not so so ones, what we're going to do is put up uh the instructions on on how to get hold of the uh assessment. So it's a complimentary tool that we're offering for a limited time, but it will really demonstrate the this alignment. And I think it goes back to what you talked about earlier, Andy. If you're a leader out there, you know, take us up on this offer. All you have to do is literally send us uh your details, then we will send you a link, we create a private link for your team, particularly, then your team can go and take that alignment survey. Those results only go to you as the leader, so you can look at those results, and we also create a one-page simple report with our recommendations and benchmarks against if purpose was at 70%, looks good, and you're at 30%, then you know you've got a red flag here. So that's what it does for you. It shows up any red flags that you might have from an alignment point of view in your team. So it's out there. We're gonna put it up on the show notes, not the show tunes, and uh, and then you can you can get hold of it. So uh, and again, thank you, Andy, for for you know pushing us to create this tool because I I really do think it's gonna be huge value for for your for your clients and and for ours.

Sam 32:58

Manage what you can't measure.

Vic 33:01

No, that's exactly it. It's it's going back to that point of if it's a secret, if you don't know what it is, how can you fix it?

Sam 33:08

Yeah, exactly that. Exactly that. So, Andy, have you got any key takeaways for us?

Speaker 3 33:13

Um, I think, yeah, I think that if you're going to if if ABM or any form of change in the in your sales and marketing operation, you know, is is going to involve transformation. Uh to you know, to improve, get from where you are to where you want to be, it's a journey. And business transformation is scary. You know, you're taking people out of their comfort zone, you're expecting them to do things differently. Uh, and therefore you have to that's what makes it fun. That's what makes it fun. And ABM is described as an example, and ABM isn't just one thing, obviously. You know, it's just many that have been successful, like Fiditsu uh and others, say that the impact of ABM, as well as obviously changing the business, has been a cultural change on the business. It's been a transformation. Uh and if we accept that it's scary and we accept this is new, and that the team you're going to be, you know, expecting the team to work differently together, um, you you need to put the programs in place. Uh, you need to help them, you need to provide them with the tools uh and the skills to be able to manage this process of transformation. And it's only going to be possible when you've got that team working together fluently, you know, all the elements we've talked about so far. Because if you haven't got that, you're not going to be able to make the change. You'll just stay where you are. So, you know, I see ABM as a kind of as the first step in the way that sales and marketing can work together like they've never worked together before, or you know, partners if you if you if you wish to include them as well. And ABM is just a catalyst because it promises this gain, it's the catalyst for change. But you're only going to be able to make ABM work if you've got alignment, and you're only going to be able to build upon that in the long term if you've got these foundations of a cohesive team together. And once you've got that, you can make anything happen. So that's my two penis.

Sam 35:16

Brilliant. That's a cracking summary. Thank you.

Speaker 3 35:20

You're welcome.

Sam 35:21

Love it. Perfect. So anyone who's listened to this podcast, we'd rather like them to have a good look at the show notes where they'll find a link to Andy's article and also um the complimentary team alignment assessment from the Amplified Group. Um, that would be really good. Um, but before that, Shark, it's your favourite part of the episode. It's hero time.

Sia 35:44

It's hero time. I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to come with a little bit of music for that, aren't I? Andy, we were joking on our last podcast that uh hero time and not hammer time, and we promise not to be wearing big pants, which uh when I listen when I listen back to it, I thought, gosh, I don't often make a joke.

Sam 36:01

Shah is referring to big trousers there.

Sia 36:04

Yes, sorry, big trousers, big trousers. So um, yeah, hammer hammer time, no, even. Hero time is where we ask our guests to just share with us a little bit of insight into who is their hero, who's motivated them, inspired them, or still does or did in the past. Um, it's just a bit of fun, but it gets us into your psyche a little bit. Um, and Andy, I know you very well, but I have no idea your hero is, so I'm looking forward to this one. So uh Andy, who's your hero?

Speaker 3 36:40

Um well um I will I will put it in in a business context because that's easy. I think it sort of feels more in context. I think one of the I think one of the people that were most influential over me, if you if that's uh a good a good one, is was the second, my second ever manager, who uh you know, I was very early on in my career, and uh we talk a lot about trust, and I think that that relationship that I had with that individual uh really enabled me to uh mature uh early in my career and build build gave me confidence. He always used to say to me, Andy, you know, there's no wrong answers, uh, but you know, if you've got a challenge, come to me with uh what you think the solution is, uh, and I'll tell you which way, you know, help you decide which one, but don't bring me problems. And I think that kind of empowerment uh and trust that I had from above made me mature as an individual. So he's one of my heroes, but there's loads of others along the way, of course.

Sia 37:42

Um do you feel like mentioning his name or you know, give him some kudos?

Speaker 3 37:47

Uh this was uh a guy called Ian Bartlett. Um he'd be delighted to hear him.

Sam 37:55

Excellent.

Sia 37:56

Thanks for that one. So, Sam, um, I guess we'll hand back to you.

Sam 38:00

So, thanks everybody. Thanks, Andy. Some fantastic insight there, really interesting. And once again, I would refer you to the show note. Um, so all that remains for me is to say thank you for listening to Get Amplified from the Amplified Group. If you liked it, please be sure to subscribe, and we'll see you next time.