“We were a Band” - Mark Templeton, Former CEO Citrix

We’ve got a festive treat for you all! 

What does it feel like to be part of something truly special, not just a company, but a band?

In this special two-part episode of Get Amplified, we’re joined by Mark Templeton, who joined Citrix when it was just 50 people, before going on to become President and then CEO, leading the business through multiple stages of growth.

Citrix customers, partners, employees and alumni will know Mark as the inspiration and the driving force, behind the realization of the Virtual Workplace vision. 

Mark takes us back to the early days, the “magic” that people still talk about, and shares what really sat behind it: a powerful combination of belief in the vision, deep trust across the organisation, and a culture built on respect, integrity, and humility.

It’s reflective, personal, and full of those moments that remind you what great teams actually feel like.

We discuss:

• Why the best teams feel more like a band than a hierarchy 
• How trust (especially with partners and customers) became a true differentiator 
• What creates that “family” feeling, and why it matters for performance 
• The role of belonging in building something bigger than yourself 
• And the leadership lessons that still hold true today 

There was a really strong feeling among the people at Citrix. They didn’t just work there, they belonged to something. And that’s what drove the energy, the performance, and the lasting impact.

It’s a heart-warming, honest conversation, perfect for this time of year. So, put your feet up, get the fire on and pour yourself a warming drink while you enjoy his pearls of wisdom!

And don’t forget, there’s more to come in part two 👀

We would love you to follow us on LinkedIn! 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/amplified-group/

Transcript

Sam 0:09

Welcome to Get Amplified from the Amplified Group, the podcast for tech industry leaders and aspiring leaders focusing on transforming talented individuals into extraordinary teams. As always, we're virtual. I'm at home in Buckinghamshire. Vicky's over in Deepest, Darkest Oxfordshire, just down the road. Sia's a little further away in the Netherlands. So today we have a very, very special guest indeed, an absolute legend, Mark Templeton of among other places, Citrix, chap that I've had the pleasure of meeting on a couple of occasions. Two things to note. While I've met Mark, Vicky and Shah work with him more closely and worked with him at Citrix for a number of years. So I'll be taking a little bit of a back seat on this one. And secondly, as we fully expect that Mark has a number of pearls of wisdom to share with us, this will be a two-part episode. So you get two for the price of one on this occasion. So, Mark, let's start with you. You were CEO of Citrix from 2001 to 2015. That is a long tenure in such a senior kind of a role, um, compared to most CEOs. Do you have a standout highlight you could share?

Speaker 1:14

Well, Sam, first of all, thank you all uh for having me as guest. And um, you know, I enjoy doing uh these kinds of uh podcasts and and especially with uh colleagues and friends, um, it makes it extra special for me. Um, but yeah, I you know was CEO for a long time, certainly um as measured by just about anything compared to typical public company uh CEOs. So over 14 years, and honestly, there are so many highlights over that period of time. I think um if I had to highlight uh just sort of one thing that in fact played out and lasted for many, many years, it was really all about being able to pursue a vision that I truly deeply believed in, and that was enabling something we call the virtual workplace. And um and then, of course, in conjunction with that, um uh working with incredible employees and partners and customers around the world that shared that vision. Um and um and also shared common values uh that we held uh very dear at Citrix, like respect, integrity, and humility. So um that uh highlight of creating virtual workplace vision and then making it real involved a project that we named Project X1 because we had to translate a vision and operationalize it into uh a business proposition. And Project X1 um was our big hairy audacious goal to grow from 500 million in 2003 to exceeding a billion in three years, 2006. And um so you know, we had the content of what we wanted to do, this notion of a virtual workplace, and we operationalized it uh through this project X1. And X1, by the way, was named after the uh rocket plane that uh General Chuck Yeager uh flew uh to uh be the first human to break the sound barrier.

Sam 3:53

Very timely to mention that, I suppose.

Speaker 3:56

Yeah, he he just passed away at 97 years old and an amazing man. He actually came uh to our uh launch event, um spoke to all of us, uh, inspired uh us, uh told some great stories, and um showed showed us you know what a you know what a true hero um he was, and uh in in terms of advancing science and doing so, you know, unconditionally. So X1 uh and uh the virtual workplace in my mind just lives on and on and on and on.

Sia 4:44

Fantastic. So thanks for sharing that, Mark. I just want to say thank you before we uh get going for joining Get Amplified. Um, you know, this podcast has been great fun for us, and we've got now nearly over 2,000, 2,500, I think it is, Vicky, um, people that have listened to it. But we really were delighted when you agreed to do this because we feel like it's a bit of a Christmas present for our listeners, and so thank you so much. So I I had a question for you. You know, I've been um privileged to have worked at Citrix, and I worked there for 14 and a half years, in fact, that was my tenure, and last year we had a uh European uh reunion, if you remember, and you were kind enough to join us, albeit virtually, with David Jones, and there were over 100 people there, and the feeling in the room was just a family, and and that was repeated. Everybody we spoke to. It was like seeing each other again for such a long time as a family. They've all gone on, a lot of those people have gone on to join amazing organizations themselves. Their grounding was at Citrix, and the one thing that we all talked about, we talked about the magic of the early days, you know, and that word also resonated throughout that hand of strong people. So, what do you attribute that magic to?

Speaker 6:12

I I think you know, there are a number of reasons, but primarily it was a combination of two things. So, first, um we had a product that some people actually called called magic middleware, okay, because they were just so amazed by you know what it did, how well it worked, and all of that, okay. And then uh that attracted, you know, great people, and we had a magical culture that respected and celebrated uh everyone. So I think it's that sort of magic product, you know, and magic culture coming together. Um, so and it was kind of a a paradox in the sense that you had magic um in the sense of the product, but the culture was all about authenticity. Uh, and so bringing those two things together, you know, was quite magnetic. Um I think contributing to it, you know, kind of keeping it going, uh, was that you know, customers were successful and and there's nothing more delightful than to do something positive for a customer um that they acknowledge and benefit from. And so really it we were creating an upward virtuous cycle, and it was kind of like a drug for employees and partners. Uh, we just all wanted more and more and more and more of it every day. Um and then I think um another big factor was there was a huge amount of trust uh across the organization, um, and especially uh trusting of partners, which uh is not only uh important when you engage partners, but uh also can be difficult. You know, a little side story, a true story. When I joined Citrix, there were about 50 people. The marketing uh team was was seven, including me. And we did have a channel chief. And um in the first staff meeting, he used some disrespectful language to describe partners. Um in the second staff meeting, so the second week, he did it again. Um after the staff meeting, I pulled him aside and I said, Um, well, his name was Jay. I said, Jay, um, you know, you are in charge of our channels and building our channels, and yet you speak disrespectfully of of our partners. And I don't see how you can be successful um building trust and relationships with partners when you don't respect them. So um have a nice day, uh, you know, and future and good luck to you. Um, and you know, so trust was, you know, an essential sort of element, I think, of uh, well, it is for any organization, but especially in those early days, and there was a tremendous amount of trust. And that went, you know, very strongly with the fact that we were also, you know, believers in what we we were doing because we knew it worked. Um uh many people were skeptical uh when we would say, hey, here's what we can do. Uh, and then they tried it and they could tell we were telling the truth. And that was, you know, a great feeling that um, you know, re-reaffirmed the belief uh that we had. So, you know, when I think back to uh that time, um, we were all looking around, seeing partners successful, customers successful, and seeing ourselves professionally being successful and having fun, um, you know, uh having families and developing. And, you know, there was just nothing about the picture to dislike. And um, you know, like uh I always like to think of us as a great rock band, you know, that were, you know, we were writing our own music um that was a little bit different from you know the rest of the bands of the day. We were selling plenty of albums. Um, we were touring the world, and we were, you know, we had a we did have a bunch of roadies, and we had uh a heck of a lot of fun doing all of that.

Sia 11:28

A great analogy. I'm sure Sam you'd appreciate that one.

Vic 11:33

Yeah, it certainly is, and I I think um I I feel like one of those roadies, Mark, from I think one of the highlights of my career was um being on stage with you at Wembley, being your demo monkey, and just praying because an hour before the demo wasn't working quite right to come out on stage and that the demo gods were with me, and they were. Um but it was it wasn't it was magic, and um you you're talking about the delighting customers. I started off um being a tech evangelist, and I used to get customers and partners to unplug their fax machine and show them winframe over uh 288 modem link, and they were just like, how does that work? It was it was just delightful, absolutely delightful.

Sam 12:29

But what sorcery is this?

Vic 12:32

Yes, exactly, exactly. So um, so you just reminiscing that has just brought that all back to me. Thank you so much. But you also talked about trust, and I think one of the things that drives us to do what we do at the Amplified Group is we appreciated so much what we had in in those early days at Citrix, but we didn't, I think we almost took it for granted. We didn't really understand what it was that we had and why it was so special, and so trying to help organizations be more conscious about it now. So just bringing it back to that culture, why do you think culture is so important? And do you think there's a recipe for it?

Speaker 13:16

We well, you know, Vicky, I you just sort of uh reminded me of the fact that we did, we did, we did kind of take it for granted. And I remember as we grew, and you know, I would um you know have lunch with new hires to try to meet new people coming in and so forth to the company. Um, you know, I uh uh you know would sit down with a group of uh of young people where it was their first job. And uh, you know, and I said to them, you know, you're the of everyone that's new that's coming in, um, you're my biggest concern. And it's because you're gonna think that all cultures and all work environments are like this. Um, you know, this is your first one and your only experience. And so what I want you to do is I want you to talk about your experience with some of the older timers and people who have worked other places so that you can gain a perspective on, you know, what what makes the culture special. And because invariably you're gonna have a bad day, you're gonna have a bad month or quarter, you're gonna have a bad boss. Uh, you know, I mean, we were we were not perfect, all right. You're gonna have a boss who's uh uh you know just not with it. And we all know people join companies, but they leave bosses, you know. And so um to get you through, you know, what I want you to do is understand how special the culture is, and you know, um you'll get through it, you know, and uh you'll get through a bad day or week or a quarter. And we do measure the culture in a way where, you know, if you have a boss that's not really, you know, uh up to snuff, we will do something about it, but that can take time, you know. Um, but you know, cultures, um, firstly, I think you have to start with the definition uh because people define it in so many ways. To me, culture is all about how people and companies get things done, and it's how they get things done based upon an underlying set of beliefs and principles and values that make them tick. Um, the difficulty is a lot of people can't write down um their core beliefs, principles, and values uh very well. I think as you get older, you're more uh in tune uh to that. Uh and uh when you're younger, uh it's more difficult. And you know, in software, the the uh uh uh employee uh population tends to be younger. Certainly we were all younger uh during the kind of years that we're talking about. Okay. And um, and we did uh write down our principles, beliefs, and values, and use those things to build the culture. Um and we did that by writing them down, so you have to be able to articulate them, and then we hired against them, we measured performance against them, we managed to them, and um and in doing that, it made achieving the common goals um uh I think pretty easy. And but the biggest impact was it minimized the typical kinds of politics and turf battles you find uh in a lot of companies. And you know, if I if I could put my finger on like one thing, um, well, let me just say this way when I got to Citrix, the the and you you asked someone, you know, there were only 50 people in the company. If you ask someone, you know, what's the culture here? They would say, Oh, that's easy. We work hard, we play hard, we get results, and we have fun doing all of that.

Vic 18:00

I could I could have said that with you then. Yeah, I could have repeated that mantra. Isn't that funny? We all knew what you were gonna say there, Mark.

Sam 18:08

Yeah, I think you must have copied that from SoftCat, surely.

Vic 18:14

But it was so right, yeah. And it was lived and experienced.

Speaker 18:20

Exactly. But then to grow um and scale that, you know, you had to define it in more discrete terms and ideas so that you could hire and evaluate, etc. So that you know, it got a it had to get more um uh uh you know sophisticated in terms of a system to replicate. But you know, one of the things that I think made us made the culture tick more than any single thing is that we accepted hierarchy as a necessary evil of managing complexity, and that it was never a proxy for respect, yeah. So that you know, because you go to so many places, and you know, the bigger your title, the more respect you get, and the lesser or the lesser your title, the lesser respect you get. And we we kept respect and hierarchy separate, and I think that if that if there was one thing that um made made it made the recipe work, I think it it it was that. That's a lovely way of putting it.

Vic 19:39

It is, and yeah, and I've got I've got a reciprocal story on that, which is a bit ridiculous. And Sam, I was telling you this the other day. Um, in terms of respect, so Mark, you just had all our respect, just leading by example, but the the reciprocation, the fact that we felt like we could approach you, and the story that I was telling Sam the other day was I thought my career had made it when I went to my first Citrix event in the States as a partner, as a distie. And then a few years later, I met you on a corridor outside one of the breakout rooms, and I'd got my first Citrix shirt as a speaker, and I was so chuffed about it and so proud about it. And I came running up to you to tell you, and I felt like I could do that. I mean, what CEO can you do that with? I mean, it was just incredible.

Speaker 20:27

Well, it goes back to the rock band um metaphor. You know, we not only did we believe we were this great rock band, we didn't believe in rock stars. Okay, so and which is sort of a characteristic of the tech industry, you know, wanting to find a rock star to give all the credit to and to focus all of the companies, you know, energy on, etc. And you just I never believed that. I never believed in that because uh honestly, I pride myself in being honest. And I knew I knew who was actually doing the work and making things happen, I knew where the ideas came from, uh, you know, and I was blessed to have such an incredible team around me uh that um, you know, shared their thinking, etc. And I got to sort of, you know, soothsay around those things and you know, and advance them. Uh so you know, uh, I'd say in my experience in working with uh you know private companies, public companies, you know, just single entrepreneurs is they don't really uh typically understand culture. They they think culture is the poster that's on the wall. Okay. And um And the poster that's on the wall, you know, was an HR or a marketing or a collaborative project that was done. And it probably has some meaning, but it doesn't have the, you know, the power of defining a culture that when you defined it as we did around human values. So, you know, the recipe, the way I would describe the recipe is first of all, it you have to start at the top, okay, um, both of the organization, but at the top of uh the stack of ideas uh with honorable intent. Um all good things uh in the world uh have to start with honorable intent. And then you have to have a very low tolerance for variance around the beliefs and principles and values, um, you know, and as I said earlier, you know, you're gonna hire, evaluate. Uh, and and great cultures, the way you can tell a great culture is they uh great culture will reject a misfit. Um, it can take some time, you know, and it takes paying attention. Um, and then you know, uh you then rinse and repeat year after year. Um and unfortunately, um uh just like all sit so-called simple recipes, they're difficult to master. And so, you know, you have to practice them, you know, just practice, practice, practice every single day, uh, and keep coming back to the to the basics.

Vic 23:53

Yeah, thank you. And I think we'll we'll we'll come on to that practice uh uh um a little bit later. But um one other thing we wanted to ask you was we recorded a podcast earlier in the series with um the emir VP of Twilio, David Parry Jones, and he's also he was a leader at Microsoft and he was a leader at VMware, but now he's at Twilio. Um he talked about the importance of belonging. Um, and I know this is important for you as well. So can you just talk to us a bit about that?

Speaker 24:22

Yeah, um, well, first of all, I'm not an expert uh on psychology. Um, you know, most of my experience there is just, you know, working with so many people in an organization through so many situations, and you know, that's your sort of on I'm I'm an OJT psychologist on the job trained. Um but you know, I I came to truly believe uh that uh people are you know more fundamentally motivated by the self-actualization that comes from being part of something that's bigger than they are.

Speaker 1 25:05

Yeah.

Speaker 25:05

I mean, you know, at at Citrix, um, we felt like okay, we had to pay competitively. Um we had to uh make sure people had good qualified managers, uh, of course, uh, but that's not why they stayed. You know, um the the reason people stayed is by having a big goal that they could believe in and um and felt like they belonged, you know, to to you know a team that was doing something worthy and they knew how to contribute to it. So if uh any of your listeners uh are fans of Simon Sinek, who uh wrote the the great book Start with Why, you know, you'll remember his lesson is people don't buy what you do, they buy why you do it. And you know, and and and belonging is all about uh sharing a common why. And uh, you know, if you share a common why, then you'll people naturally follow. And when people naturally follow, you know, they they therefore belong. And that sense of belonging feels good and uh it gets them up before the alarm clock goes off every day.

Vic 26:38

Yeah. And and it goes back to what you were saying as well about then you're delighting your customers.

Speaker 26:44

Right. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I think you know, the the uh the belonging, I would say, it just to uh speak more directly about Citrix, uh extended uh to partners and customers. Yeah, because when you if you think back, you know, our uh the old the the old the whole idea of you know virtual apps and desktops and a virtual workplace was pretty, you know, people were reasonably cynical, etc. And it and it took uh a unique individual as a customer to take the risk to to try it and to become a customer. And so they they saw the magic as well, and they felt they belonged, and partners felt they belonged. So, you know, I always thought of us as you know, a company of, you know, whatever number we were, sort of at the top of the pyramid, you know, we had custom partners that relied on us and belonged, and then they had customers that relied on them that belonged. So the our impact and reach on belonging was just was massive, and we saw that when we held, you know, customer and partner events, you know, in terms of uh the number of people that would uh come, and we saw it in the in the engagement and enthusiasm too.

Sia 28:24

Yeah, Mark, I've always been in the partner side of the business and um you know looked after the AMIA um partner ecosystem. And you talked about trust earlier, and and my goodness, you know, if there was ever a partner ecosystem that had trust in their vendor, it was definitely with Citrix, and that's what got gave me a huge amount of confidence whenever I went into a meeting with a partner because I didn't have to think about that, you know, that was just a second nature. So you talked about looking back. If we were to to look back on your time, and if if God forbid you were to start again, um what advice would you maybe give your younger self? Can you maybe share with us any lessons that you would perhaps even do differently?

Speaker 29:14

Well, um uh you know, I'm I'm I tend not to be a wulda, coulda, shoulda person, uh, you know, so um this is a tough one. I don't really think that way. Um, but you know, what I would do is, and uh to you know give you at least an answer is um I would uh give the advice you know that I followed. Um and um so the first first uh thing that and and all the all of these things were learned, you know, um uh along the way. So first of all, uh, you know, follow your heart. I mean, so people hear that, they say it's cliche. No, there's something called the limbic brain, okay? It's the analog part of your brain, and it aligns with what's in your heart. People describe it, you know, as what they feel in their heart. So it's where your instinct is, you know, it's where uh you maybe you you don't do the math um as much as you know do the emotional calculus. So that would be the first um advice that I would give to anyone uh that's uh their younger self. Um the second uh is super important and that is be honest with yourself about yourself. Um you know uh there's so many people that I've seen, you know, hired, managed, etc., that just are not honest enough with themselves in order to embrace their weaknesses so that they can surround themselves with complimentary people and also um develop themselves in the proper places. And that only comes from um uh knowing uh yourself and being honest about it. You know, my mother um uh always uh taught us that the power most powerful thing that you can be is yourself, but um that requires knowing who you are. Um so that that would be the second thing. I'd say the third thing is um sounds obvious, um, but um I think uh it's important to be very consciously uh diligent about it, and that is learn from mistakes. Um uh it makes mistakes have value. So if a mistake is a negative one, let's say, um then um you you need to make a positive two out of it so that whatever you were trying to do that you failed at, you know, you not only you know get back to even, you can you you get ahead by you know having made the mistake. And you know, for younger people, um keep in mind that the earlier in life that you make the mistakes that you learn from, the longer you have to compound interest the value of that mistake.

Sam 32:54

And that's there's the pearl of wisdom I was talking about right at the beginning. That is spot on.

Speaker 33:00

Well, you know, I I I I had good fortune in that regard. Um, but uh um and then um uh I'd say the last sort of piece of sort of core advice I'd give to young people uh that came very naturally to me for uh a few you know reasons, and that is to find role models to mimic. Um and you know, because you know why reinvent the wheel? You know, there's no purpose in reinventing the wheel. And so when uh when you when you uh find a role model to mimic, you know, you're skipping over, you know, trying to uh invent something, uh either a behavior or a way of doing things and so forth, and you're able to put your energy in um uh the the right place, and that is innovation. Um, I don't consider inventing wheels to be innovation, right?

Sam 34:15

Yeah, yeah. I always used to describe myself as as an amalgam of all of the people that I'd learned from, that had managed me, that had coaxed me, that I'd had meetings alongside, and you know, yes, my my persona was the little bits that I'd collected from all of those wonderful people I'd learnt from on my way through, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 34:38

Yeah, you know, I mean, related to this question, um, and what you just said is you know, that amalgam was pulled put together over some span of time. Yes, true. So imagine whatever that amalgam of people, you know, was if you could line them up, you know, outside your door on one day and have them come in and give you, you know, the advice that they would give you all on one day, yeah, it wouldn't work. It wouldn't work, yeah. You wouldn't be able to absorb it. Right. So so the way I uh you know uh like to think about this is it's the same thing with your children, you know. You don't you don't want to um deny the right um to have the experience of a failure um in order to learn from a mistake. Uh and the same thing goes for advice. You just can't, you know, pile on advice when someone is young. It would be like um, you know, uh it's it's it's the metaphor I like to use. If you if you put a picture of of a piece of cheese on a mouse trap, do you know where you catch? A picture of a mouse. Okay. So, you know, so if you load up advice, um you know, it it you you you you give people a lot of theoretical information, but it doesn't really um it's not really that valuable. So in the end, you know, true experiences and mistakes, holding yourself accountable, um, accumulating scar tissue, and uh, and then you know, sometimes you're also in the right place at the right time because you know you can look at two people, you know, that have equal everything, IQ, EQ, etc. But one person just has more blessings and luck around, you know, being in the right place at the right time. You know, one of my favorite movies um is sliding doors. Okay. And it is all about um how a split second in a life where a choice where either you have to make a choice or you get blocked, you know, from a direction for uh a split second can can truly change you know the course of a life. And um so uh you know, so being in the right place at the right time does matter.

Vic 37:34

You were talking earlier about um lessons learned and about people that you've worked with being able to identify, know themselves, and and as you know, we practice Patrick Lencioni's methodology, which goes back to your point earlier as well about not reinventing the wheel. This is a really smart methodology, but how do we take this and make it really relevant to the people that we work with? And um, when we first set out on this journey, I remember um being in touch with you and you sharing with us that you'd also um followed the methodology at some point at Citrix. Um, you told me about the red eye about coming over to Citrix Eye Forum in Edinburgh and reading the book.

Speaker 1 38:20

Yes.

Vic 38:21

Um and so what I'm just really keen for you to share with our listeners actually is what you think about the methodology and how relevant you think it is, and why you think that trust piece is such a strong foundation.

Speaker 38:35

Um yeah, it's definitely a true story, and I'd say um his book, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, uh, is the most powerful business book I've ever read. Um, it was given to me by someone I trust very much, who's uh an executive recruiter who's still a very good friend of mine and helped me uh a lot, you know, across my career. And, you know, first of all, when he gave me the book and I read the title, I looked up and I said, Eric, are you telling me my team is dysfunctional? And he said, Mark, I'm not telling you anything. What I'm telling you is this is a great book that I think you know you'll you'll you'll get a lot of value from. So um, you know, I'm not a voracious reader, never have been uh one of those types to read books and recommend them. And so, you know, I put it in my briefcase and um and a couple weeks later, uh, we were having our iform event in Edinburgh, and um usually I sleep on the red eye, uh, and usually the best way for me to sleep is to read a book, to try to start reading. Okay, yeah, so I started reading the book and I couldn't sleep.

Vic 40:10

No, you couldn't put it down event, right?

Speaker 40:12

I couldn't put it down, and the reason I couldn't put it down is um, and and I think it's happens to a lot of people, is you see yourself and the people around you in the characters of the book. So you can say, okay, that's you know, Joe, and that's Mary, and that's Alice, and that's Charlie, and so forth. Um, and that which makes it very powerful, you know, as a read, but also as uh as you know, a way to learn. So um it really exposed the the dysfunction I had on the team and uh uh uh you know my first team. And it was uh preventing us, I could see, from being truly great. And the timing of that book was it was given to me approximately six months after we had launched the X1 project. And so we had a goal that had a definitive amount of time, and therefore uh, you know, we had to have a bias toward acting, and anything that was slowing us down uh was a real problem. So um uh I got to Edinburgh. Uh I you know got on the dial up connection and um uh got on Amazon, ordered the book for everyone on on the executive team, uh sent it to them, uh set up uh a meeting to do the exercise in the book, and um uh and it revealed a lot. Um and you know, uh I walked out of the exercise meeting, and I'm thinking, you know, we're trying to go from 500 million to a billion in three years. Um, it was a huge undertaking that had would have a major impact on so many thousands of lives when you think of employees and their families, partners and their families and so forth. And um uh we knew because we had uh some advice from a consulting firm uh that it required flawless execution. So um, you know, I realized two of the execs weren't really on the team. So a couple of weeks after the exercise, I you know took on what was a gut-wrenching decision, probably the most gut-wrenching decision of my career uh at the time, uh, to let them go and uh reassign their responsibilities um and uh to move ahead. And you know, um and even to this day, when I think back to the circumstance, I wouldn't I would do it again, I wouldn't do it any differently. Um, and um, you know, we exceeded a billion in 2006, and it's largely because we eliminated the dysfunction at the top of the organization, uh, which um turns out energized and inspired the rest of the team. Because, you know, when an executive team is dysfunctional. Uh you know, it flows downward in the sense of, you know, it creates bad behaviors in the organization. And when uh, and everyone knows it, there are no secrets. And so when when if you're CEO and you fix it, um it sends a message that you care, it sends a message that functional, uh being functional matters, trust matters, okay, and um, and you're you're gonna make hard decisions when uh there's a lack of trust. And and uh so it was interesting to see how you know doing that impacted in a positive way um the entire company.

Vic 44:52

Yeah, we said we talk about setting the tone from the top, and also um Lencioni also says if there is a degree of separation in the leadership team, then as that comes down, well that's how that's why your silos form. And and that's exactly what we work to. So yeah.

Speaker 45:09

Yeah, I mean I think there's a you know, I'm not a ph I'm not a physicist. Um, you know, the uh uh but I think one of the laws of physics is that uh in business is that actions from the top of the company are exponentially multiplied by the time they get to the first line uh you know, sort of person. So some of the simplest, you think some of the simplest decisions you're making at the top can have very highly amplified reverberating effects, you know, through the organization. And I think that a lot of teams can sometimes not be conscious of that.

Sia 46:04

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's such an endorsement for the model, and you know, they talk about it being simple and not simplistic. And it is, we always say, don't we, Vicky, this this model is not rocket science, but it is the most, you know, you talked about the book um being, you know, the best business book you've read. For us, this model just resonated as soon as we came across it.

Vic 46:27

We're also now really seeing it with our clients, aren't we? And the impact that it's having on them is just totally, yeah. It's that delighting our customers that we talked about earlier. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 46:40

Yeah, I mean, we'll probably talk about this more, uh, but you know, uh, and maybe your business isn't old enough yet, but you know, I found that this lesson of uh of of demanding and and and keeping teams functional is a constant process. It's not like you know, oh I have two broken people and I need to change them out, and now I've got a functional team, so I'm check, I'm done. You know it's it it it there's a whole maintenance to it, and then um you have to learn it over and over and over again. So I I'd say, you know, refreshers, you know, on this are are good things for for uh leadership teams to to do.

Vic 47:39

Yeah, and we we will touch on it later, but what you've just described there is what we call organizational fitness. So you're constantly working to keep fit and keeping training, keeping fit. Yeah.

Sam 47:52

Well, we've covered an enormous amount of ground thus far. I think it might be time to draw us towards a break and the conclusion of episode one of our chat with Mark. But just before we go, Shah, I think it might be hero time.

Sia 48:07

It might be indeed. So, Mark, um, I don't know whether you are familiar with this section of the podcast, but uh we always like to ask our guests who their hero is. And obviously, from the way Vicky and I have been so still and so well behaved on this podcast, uh, you're obviously one of our heroes for sure. I'm gonna tell a tiny little story, if I may. So I was very privileged to become a most value player at one of the sales um events, and I got to go to Hawaii with my husband, and you know, I was fairly uh low down in the food chain at that point at Citrix. I'd not been there long, but I was very proud to be the MVP, and I got off the bus with my husband, and you walked up to me and said, Hey Shah, great to see you here. And I thought, how on earth does Mark Templeton know who I am? And uh you you just have a an impact on people that you don't even know you you you have, so you're definitely one of our heroes. Um so with that, um, for our listeners that don't know, Hero Time is about a uh a brand. We call him Hero. He's our brand at the Amplified Group. Um he wears a cape, and uh it's about making our clients the heroes. And so with that, Mark, we ask everybody just to give us a flavor of maybe somebody who's your hero or somebody that has motivated you. Now I know you've got a breadth of experience, so that might be difficult to narrow it down, but if you could share some, that would be super.

Speaker 49:44

Oh goodness. Well, first of all, um thanks for the kind words. I um you know I'm really proud of that MVP program, um uh, not only because it um uh it was a way for the organization to really be honest about giving credit to people who made extraordinary contributions without um uh respect to you know a title or a position and so forth. All right. So um, and I was really proud, you know, of how we went about making the decision, um, uh, because you know, the MVP spots were um few, um, in fact. Uh so you know, the the sales team would make their recommendations, they would write down, you know, why the you know a particular person was being nominated, etc. Uh the they would narrow it down and then I would sit down with them and go through what their recommendations were, you know. And um, so when you showed up, you know, getting off the bus, I knew uh what your contribution had been. And I think that um, you know, that was just sort of my small way of contributing to the process, but you know, I was always cognizant of the fact that we were a band. And you know, you gotta have every, you know, you gotta have people who set up the equipment, you gotta have people who, you know, uh make all the arrangements for the tour. You have to have people playing instruments, writing music, uh, you know, whatever. I mean, there's so many roles, and when you're missing one, the performance uh is diminished, right? So um, so thanks for reminding me of that and uh those kind words. And you know, I I I would always tell MVPs when they came up on stage, I'd not only thank them, I thank them for being, you know, in a rare uh group in the company because these are the hardest, they in fact were the hardest awards to win, um, because all the other ones were objectively measured based upon uh you know uh how uh you exceeded quotas. Um so uh so congratulations uh once again. Thanks for but this is this is really the toughest question of all um because you know um I've always relied on great role models and mentors, and and each of them um was and is still a hero to me. You know, they engaged and taught me unconditionally because that's what heroes do. You know, they do good things for others without any condition. Um, it's the good Samaritan that uh here in Florida, a uh family that was visiting ran off the road into one of those uh uh gullies that are there to drain water. Their car was upside down. A good Samaritan jumped in the water uh and uh held a little four-year-old girl's head above water until the the fire department could come and um you know lift the lift the automobile. And uh that's what heroes do, you know, they they're doing something that maybe puts themselves in danger, but they're doing something good, you know, unconditionally for others. And I think that's part of the definition of a of great leadership, of great colleagues, being a great parent, being a great sibling or friend. So, you know, there are so many um uh in one's life, uh, it's hard to you know put your finger on just one uh one for sure. But uh, you know, I mean Roger Roberts, who is my predecessor, uh CEO at Citrix, uh, is clearly one of my heroes. Um uh and uh because he taught me so much, he encouraged me, um, he talked straight to me, uh, was honest with me in good times and in bad. Um, so he's clearly, you know, one of my you know most memorable heroes. Another one is Tom Bogan, who served as uh chairman of the board of Citrix for many years. And uh Tom uh was you know always gave sage advice. I uh could call him uh and talk with him when I had some of the most difficult, unsolvable problems, whether they were sometimes they were personal, um, and but most of the times they were professional. And he would listen. Uh he would um ask, you know, Socratic types of questions, uh, and help me, you know, kind of solve my problem myself or make me feel like I solved my my problem myself, uh, and teach me all at the same time. So Tom is a uh is clearly a hero of mine. Um and um, you know, I have other heroes, you know, for other reasons. Um uh yeah uh Winston Churchill is one of my heroes. I've read you know uh kind of all the biographies and I've read all of his works that he authored. Um uh and he's a hero uh in my mind because he's the person we have to thank for uh Western civilization as we know it today. And um and without his um you know leadership um wouldn't exist. And when you actually read um his words and you read about him, um his grandson uh uh wrote a biography uh on him, you know, his vulnerability uh is exposed and kind of his authenticity is exposed and all. And you just see how valuable that is um in a leader uh and um um and clearly a hero for a lot of people. So those are the those are the ones that you know come to mind that are specific, but just look at the look around the world today, you know. I mean, if you're a frontline healthcare worker, if you're a scientist working on a vaccine, if you're uh a small business person trying to keep your small team employed and keep your business afloat, you're a hero, you know. You're doing you're you're doing uh good things unconditionally. And you know, for me, um, you know, I tend to uh see silver linings in clouds. I I don't see the darkness, I see the silver. And in the same way, I see the heroics um in just everyday people. Um, you know, and uh so that's why that there's a hard question for me.

Sia 58:21

Yeah, beautifully said. Thank you, Mark. I appreciate you sharing that with us.

Sam 58:25

My pleasure. So thank you for listening to this special episode of Get Amplified from the Amplified Group. I say this every time, but of course, your comments and your subscriptions are always gratefully received. And make sure you catch part two when we will continue our conversation with the legend that is Mark Templeton.

Speaker 58:56

We'll have to edit this too. Hold on. The girls, the girls have to the girls are getting rounded up to go to the salon, I think.

Sam 59:09

They wonder they didn't want to miss out for featuring on the podcast.

Speaker 59:13

Okay, yeah, and and uh so that and uh they like to hang around me, and so uh they were they were coming to get retrieved, and they're going under my desk and all that stuff.