Finding the Right Balance between Corp and Field - Lamia Megdiche VP Partner Strategy and Programs, Commvault

Getting the right working balance between Corporate and Field is one of the critical success factors for tech organisations to scale at speed, but why is it so hard to achieve ? Lamia  joins Sam and Vic to share her vast experience, sharing the importance of always being customer centric and how everyone is part of the value chain. If one part breaks, it all breaks.

We also talk through 

• How differences in GEO’s come into play driven by specific market characteristics i.e. market shape and size,
•  Why Corp and field should engage early in discussions 
•  Why the Voice of the field is so important and success starts with trust

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Transcript

Sam 0:10

Welcome to Get Amplified from the Amplified Group, the podcast for tech industry leaders and aspiring leaders who want to help their companies execute faster. As always, we're virtual. I'm back home in Buckinghamshire, not being attacked by Zelda the Puppy today, having snooze, which is good timing. Vicki's in Deepest Darkest Oxford. So, Vicky, who have we got on the show today?

Vic 0:30

Well, on the show today is somebody that I have been asking to join our podcast for, I think since before we even conceived the idea of the podcast. So, yeah, so I'm absolutely thrilled. We have Lamia Megdish, who is VP of Partner Strategy and Programs at Commvault. And I had, and I'm going to say, the absolute privilege of, I'm not going to say even working with Lamia, but partnering with Lamia when I worked at VMware. And you know, even yesterday, I was facilitating a leadership team, an EMIA Tech Company's leadership team, working with a corporate team on new programs. And every tech organization, the partnership between corporate and the field, and I'm not just going to say EMIA, but the field is such an important balance to get right. And it is a partnership. And I've had years and years of experience of working with the US. And for myself, I worked five years in a corporate role, although still based in the UK. And there isn't anybody that I've had the experience of working with that does partnering with the field better than Lamia. So I am thrilled, thrilled that you are on to give us your perspective and share your wisdom with us.

Sam 2:02

Wow, that might be the most fulsome introduction we've ever had, Vicky. So uh some serious praise there. And Lamia, I'm sure you'll live live up to that. So Lamia, maybe you would be so kind as to give us something of a potted career history, please, if you don't mind.

SPEAKER_02 2:17

Yeah, sure. Um happy to. So in addition to career history, I'm I may start with a little bit of personal history as well, because um I'm an I'm an AMIA girl through and through. So um graceful. Although, yeah, I actually am um I'm dialing in from sunny Palo Alto, California, and I've been living in the US for over 18 years. I'm a US citizen, but um, in addition to that, my background, I'm actually the citizen of uh two EMIA countries, um France and Tunisia, which is primarily where my background is from. But um in addition to that, I was born in Germany, I lived in Kuwait, Turkey, Belgium, to name a few. Uh was very lucky to have um kind of an international but deeply rooted EMIA upbringing. So there you have it. Uh Europe, Middle East, and Africa. I got those in me. So then leading into you know education and career, so yeah, as I was educated as a um as an engineer in France. Software development and applied math uh was my specialty. So my initial early career years, I um I kind of followed my um line of training, if you will. Uh worked at uh BNP Paribas, BNP Paribas, which is a very European company, very French, uh as a financial engineer. And then um one thing leading to the other, I then moved on to um HP. And for those who are familiar with HP at the time, HP was fabulous in giving people uh infinite possibilities in terms of mobility, both jobs as well as geography. So while I started in finance and engineering and all those things, um with HP, moved from not only from France to the US, but also, you know, tried a new job every year and a half. So moved from finance and engineering to uh marketing, supply chain, sales, all kinds of things. And then uh came a point in time where I, you know, I had to settle on what I wanted to be uh when I grew up. So um uh experimented with this thing called uh enterprise channel sales and strategy. And actually, uh before I left HP, uh my last stint was um uh being in the office of the channel chief, uh, a gentleman by the name of Enrique Lores, who's now the uh CEO of HP Inc. So definitely um great mentor and great way to uh get introduced to this channel business. And then after that, um started a uh nine and a half years um stint at VMware where I had the privilege of working with Vicky, got hired at VMware for sure you guys, I mean, obviously Vicky, you are and Sam, for those familiar with the company, um around 2011, VMware was all about uh server virtualization and a little bit of end-user computing and everything else was called emerging. All the businesses that then became like full-fledged over a billion-dollar business were called emerging. And so my role was to create the partner go to market for what was called emerging, but then super lucky to be sitting in that position because all I had to do at VMware is uh sit there and collect all these new businesses that kept coming through, either based on organic growth or acquisition, and then um and then build start from like nascent go-to-market motions to full-fledged go-to-market motions and expand that go-to-market role, um, not just in at the global level, but um in regions as well. And that's Vicky how we got to work together because while my team and I were scrambling on go-to-markets um from a global corporate strategy and asset standpoint, your team was building that uh at the MEA level and rolling out to your countries. So um that's the whole genesis of that. So um, and then uh yeah, I mean, had a great ride at VMware, got the opportunity to build several businesses, but then uh decided to go do something else in a smaller company. And here I am at um Convault, um, leading partner strategy programs, investments, etc. Uh, we're specialized in um data backup and recovery in the multi-cloud environment. I thought I would do a little bit of a plug for my employer and uh just very privileged to be sitting in the city.

Sam 6:32

You're permitted a quick sales pace. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Yeah, that's good. I think it's all fair. Um so yeah, we sit in a very unique position where um we're we're small companies, still very agile, innovative, making a difference in the multi-cloud world, but at the same time have a very robust structure uh when it comes to um not only the maturity of the business itself, but also deeply, deeply caring about things like uh diversity and inclusion, uh, about promoting and growing our workforce and um and doing really cool things there that uh I hope to get the chance to talk about.

Sam 7:10

Fantastic. It's really funny, but uh just this morning um I threw away my Convault SoftCat co-branded protein shaker that I've been using for the last five years. And I've actually got two of them, so it won't have been used daily, but every other day. And uh it sprang a link this morning. So you go the other one's still going strong. So how funny, how funny. So there you go. You know, we were obviously partnering with with ConvaultWeb back then, and and you know, SoftCat continue to do so these days in my absence. Um, so being as partnering with the field is your your absolute core. What are your principles in working with the field to build strategy?

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Yeah, a great question. And and for context, the the and the way I've been interacting with the field um in my various roles has been in um you know sitting at corporate, if you will, and and having global roles along the lines of partnering strategies and programs, um, and then interacting with the field primarily through the regional setup, where they would be in EMIA region, right, PJ region or America's region, uh, and you know, would count on these teams and instances to be the interface into the actual sellers and the country. So, in terms of principles, I think it comes down to a few simple but important things. So um the the first one is really from a mindset standpoint, truly embracing what it means to be customer-centric. And by that I mean uh there is a customer somewhere in the country, there is a seller attending to that customer, uh, and then uh there is a let an AMEA team attending to the various sellers and in the various countries. Um, as long what corporate teams might tend to do is be a little bit in the comfort of their corporate walls doing a lot of thinking and you know, strategizing in a vacuum. But um, in doing that, they often lose the core purpose, um, which is we're in the business of um uh selling products to customers that make them happy and deliver value. So as long as you keep that principle in mind, then you think of the AMIA region, for example, as your customer. Um, and and with that in mind, there is a healthy push and pull that um that falls into place where the AMIA team will you count on them on being the voice of the field and providing the customer perspective and what is required to make them successful. And it works both ways in the sense that the expectation should be from the corporate team that they bring the point of view to the table, they have access to more resources, etc. And that creates a virtual circle in that exchange. So as long as we keep the customer front and center in everything that we're doing, um, and we check egos at the door, um, the mindset should lend itself to a good outcome. Um, the other piece I will bring up is um Vicky earlier mentioned the piece about um I had the opportunity to attend multiple partner advisory councils at VMware in the MIA and other regions where I would have a presentation piece, but truly use this as an opportunity to um listen to the voice of the partner. Um and I think you know, we all talk about active listening, but what does it mean? It really means like putting yourself in the in the shoes of that person and uh and embracing their experience in their day-to-day job, which I would recommend to any person sitting at corporate to do, either uh through partner advisory councils or other forms. And I would argue in the in the Zoom day, it's easier to do because you can be sitting wherever you are and just be a fly on the wall on on so many meetings. So um would recommend um definitely that. So that would be another principle is the active listening.

Vic 10:56

And then Tamia, just just before we go on, just on listening, I read an article last week on listening, and they described active listening, yes, like a trampoline. Yes, I remember that post. Yeah, so it's so active listening, people think it's just not saying anything and not responding and just being quiet and letting the other person speak. But actually, the thought of this trampoline and and the back and forth, and actually that really describes how how we work together, doesn't it?

Sam 11:26

Because we just no, I thought that was a really, really good analogy.

Vic 11:33

I really liked it. Does it does that make sense to you?

SPEAKER_02 11:37

Makes absolute sense because um, especially like many years ago in early careers for some of us, we were trained to reformulate. We were trained to say, hey, you're gonna listen, like you're gonna stop talking, listen to the person, and then you're gonna say something along the lines of what I heard you say is, right? Which is very important as well. But I think a more powerful uh dialogue is one where you indeed internalize what the person said, but you build on top of it. And yeah, I think that's what the trampoline analogy is conducive to.

Vic 12:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great, yeah. That's that's such a simple point you just made there, but so eloquent, as usual. Oh, thank you.

Sam 12:18

Brilliant. So one of our running themes that we've covered, not every time, but this seems to pop up every few episodes, is talking about the difference between the US and EMIA, talking about the difference between different uh countries within EMIA. Um, what what do you see as the differences?

SPEAKER_02 12:40

That's a great question. Um, and so here's the challenge, sitting from my global seat, is that um is finding the uh the right balance in being aware of differences in markets and cultures and players at the same time, and at the same time, um like always going back and forth between not uh not generalizing too much, but not over-rotating to deep diving into too many differences, etc. Um, so in terms of differences, my point of view is that there aren't as many as we think that are driven by geography. Uh, where differences come into play from my perspective, it's it's really driven by specific market dynamics uh and players, it's market maturity, it's market size. Um, especially in the universe of high-tech, uh, it becomes the predominant dimensions as opposed to anything that is geography driven or culture driven or any of that. And if you focus on these types of dimensions, like you know, microdynamics size, um, maturity, etc., then um, and again, without oversimplifying, then you find that, you know, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and to some extent northern Europe have a lot of things that are similar. And it's not just language, it's it's really driven by you know markets similar in size, uh, markets similar in maturity, etc. Um, and so it's while it's true that um American companies tend to oversimplify based on the US being one big country, although despite having multiple markets um in there, um, there are there are more commonalities that are driven by market size and shape, etc., than there are differences in my experience.

Sam 14:33

Makes sense. And in a few years of doing this, you must have learned a few things. Any any potential pitfalls, anything that you would do differently or you would avoid or change?

SPEAKER_02 14:45

So, in terms of things done differently or would change, um, etc. So I spoke earlier about, and Vicky spoke about the trampoline analogy, right? Where there is like um give and take, push and pull between global and regions, etc. In an ideal world, a lot of um high-tech companies are going to talk about an 80-20 type of model where corporate empowers and standardizes for um the regions to execute on an 80% basis that they can take and run with and gives them 20% flexibility. That's a that's a little bit of an ideal, like Goldilocks just right type of mix. Um, it's not easy to achieve at all because the natural tendency of teams working together is going to be on both sides of the spectrum, either oversimplifying, not have not wanting to worry about the detail and therefore coming, uh coming up with uh something that is one size fits all and doesn't work all that well, or the opposite side of the spectrum is he or she who screams the loudest um gets what they get gets what they want. And that if you got three or four countries screaming louder, that that ends up being you know a lot of um a lot of exceptions. So that's one of the pitfalls, I think, and and the way to work around it is that's what I keep reminding myself and my teams is do your homework. Like um, if you're in corporate, understand the various market dynamics, understand the various um market sizes, the players, all that, uh all that good stuff, so that um you when you bring a point of view to the table and when you're truly negotiating with your um regional counterparts, you engage in a data-informed type of dialogue, which is gonna help you achieve that right balance, not oversimplify, but not listen to the opinion that is the strongest either.

Vic 16:37

So that's a fact-based discussion, then, isn't it? It's based on evidence. That's what you're talking about. So I'm I'm curious about this because actually I was having a call this morning with um someone that's just starting out in an employee experience role, they're leading it from a global perspective. And she was talking about trying to understand the balance with how much you can do where's the 8020 and and how much is flexible so that it's employee or customer-led or region-led or how where's the balance? So do you do you think the 8020 rule works?

SPEAKER_02 17:19

Uh as a general guidance, yeah. Uh, I mean, is it 80-20? Is it 70?

Sam 17:26

7030.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

It it can vary, right? Uh, but as a general like um rule of thumb, um, it does work. But but again, for it to work, two things need to happen. I will over-emphasize that the corporate teams need to do their homework. And again, with Zoom, go sit on calls and uh and listen to what's going on and understand your markets and your players. I would also say what happens, what tends to happen with regional teams and country teams is that they will come to corporate teams with a very strong opinion on the solve, as opposed to bringing an issue and requesting a starting early enough in the process.

Vic 18:07

And that this is it just reminded me facilitating this meeting yesterday of that the most important thing is to engage early in in the discussion, so that things aren't already baked and thrown over the fence. And if you if you've got input into that in the first place, also just the let's see the only methodology that you and I have have have um worked with with um your woman in tech team, the whole point of that is if you get people to to if they feel like they've been heard, they're much more likely to commit to the general direction of travel anyway. So it's it's not rocket science, is it?

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And I think um, yeah, engage early and frequently in that whole dialogue dimension. And I think um, Vicky, one of the reasons why our teams worked well together as well is that uh there was mutual respect of each other's area of expertise in the sense that and and empowerment on both ends, in the sense that uh EMIA teams trusted and empowered for being the voice of the field and voicing what's what's happening in terms of what's going to drive partner success, but also trusted the global team in terms of the how or in terms of bringing a solve that is scalable, uh, that uh you know that complements or competes nicely with the rest of the market. So I think that mutual trust trust in terms of lines of work and areas of expertise is essential as well.

Vic 19:37

And it's so that it's it comes down to the trust thing, doesn't it? Because the trust between us was so strong that we had every confidence if we asked for your help, you you had listened and you would, and even if the answer that came back was no, we can't help with that, we knew you'd you'd tried. So it's it comes down to relationships too, doesn't it? It really does.

Sam 20:01

So, how do you make sure it gets followed through in the local countries? You know, you do it on an emir level or a global level or whatever. Obviously, that can then flow down through various different levels and things can get lost in translation. How do you make sure it happens on the ground?

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah, so in my opinion, um, it does come down to that accountability piece we were just um talking about, where um the the roles in my experience we're talking about here, the beauty of it is that we're talking about um roles that are in the sales organization, um, enabling partner success through programs, etc. The beauty of that is that the metrics are pretty clear. Um so in terms of achieving a sales goal, did you did you hit the number? Yes, no. And then, of course, you have all your indicators around partner satisfaction, experience, and same for customer satisfaction and experience. So when you have those types of dials, it's it makes it easier to just go measure in a consistent fashion. I mean, nobody disputes the number and see, are you moving the needle? Yes, no. So, in terms of measurement, um, there is clarity there. But then in terms of making sure that things are happening, um, it it comes down to that piece around empowerment and trust, right? Um, there are Mia teams that are in charge of that rollout and adoption piece. Um, as long as there is uh agreement on that and you put the right governance in place to um check on progress there and um extend help instead of just inspection, which sometimes global teams tend to do, is more inspect versus help. Um, I think it's um it's a workable model.

Vic 21:41

Yeah. You know, um what what is interesting from what you were just saying, was you talked about clarity. Um so we are currently in the process of rolling out our 2020. Global IT leaders survey, and we've we've we've had, as we did last time in 2019, we're getting a tremendous response back. And it's just fascinating. So we were asking the questions around our speed check, which is purpose, trust, clarity, and simplicity. And the first column, the first question is around clarity. And it's just a no. People just don't seem to have clarity on what's expected of them. Just at a glance, I can see that that score is going to be low. And it doesn't seem to matter whether you're in marketing, sales, HR, operations. It's quite staggering. So how do you, and I know we haven't asked this question in the outline, but how do you ensure that clarity?

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Uh by asking the question. No, but uh kidding apart. So I think um we we often think that um tasks such as establishing a racy or talking about roles and responsibilities, it's a little mundane. It's you know, it's sometimes people fear of stepping into this type of discussion as well, because you know, people can feel like there could be some territorial behavior or uncertainty due to unclarity, etc. But um, I think as teams that are mostly oriented towards finding solutions and content and things like that, as they jump into this type of exercise, which is more comfort zone, bring up the racy discussion. Who's doing what and who's accountable for what? It's it needs to happen at the same time, happen early, like you you said, and um just have the dialogue, and that should drive the clarity.

Vic 23:41

Yeah, it's funny, isn't it? But we we just you're the first person that we've had on the podcast that have mentioned has mentioned racing. It's like people shy away from it, put it on the table.

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Yeah, just talk about it. And again, it is mundane, it's like comes across as a daunting task, and uh and uh and sometimes it does generate some uncomfortable conversations on areas of gap or overlap, but that's fine. They they need to be had. Yeah, they do better had than not had.

Vic 24:11

Yeah.

Sam 24:12

So talk just about teaming. This is obviously a very much a team effort. You can't do this alone across across the whole of the globe.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Yeah, so um again, I like uh not to sound like a broken record, but maybe I am a little bit because I keep going back to the same core principles. I mean, it comes down to customer centricity if you apply that as a core principle, because then that creates a chain reaction or a value chain, however you want to call it. It's like again, if uh when Vicky was sitting in a MIA, the countries and the field were her customers, and then she was my customer, and and and so it goes. Um and in my simplistic view of the world in high-tech companies and other companies, uh, you know, their engineering teams and product teams that make products and they're sellers. And that's these are the core functions that deliver the value directly, the rest of us are support functions. And and that is not a statement or of um or an assessment of value of the teams themselves, it's more an assessment of their value in a in a value chain and what each role needs to do for the whole chain to take place and for products to be sold to um to customers. So if you use that lens on it, uh that everyone is part of a value chain, then teaming just becomes essential because one piece breaks and the chain doesn't work, and we're not selling anything. So that's as simple as I uh the simple view of seeing it, and of course, obviously uh working in a nice, amicable, cooperative, collaborative environment is just a nice experience for everyone with all the hours we spend at work.

Vic 25:53

So there is the human and personal factor as well, which we're gonna come on to now because just changing tact a little bit. We recorded a podcast um at the start of this year called Kind Girls Can Get the Corner Office, and you are such a shining example of that. And actually, we recorded a podcast last week with VP of sales operations and a VP of services, and the whole podcast was about kindness and how important it is.

Sam 26:33

So kind guys can get the corner office as well, right?

Vic 26:37

I think that's exactly the point. And that was the point we made in the podcast, wasn't it, Sam?

Sam 26:41

100% agree, yeah, exactly. That's the yeah, yeah.

Vic 26:44

Not to embarrass you too much, but you were uh a Power 100 CRN award winner as well, which I was so, so delighted to see you getting that recognition. But we engaged what at the back end of last year, didn't we? Um, and that was around an initiative that you've been driving uh Comvault around women in tech. So, what's your experience been as a as a woman in tech? And why is this so important to you?

SPEAKER_02 27:16

Yeah, so uh so here so um I have to admit it's only in recent years that um I became aware, if you will, of the um difference or in the uh on the of the status of being a woman in tech as being something that um is still a little bit unique and that um younger generations are aspiring to to get to. So it's only in recent years that I became aware and proactive in a give back type of motion.

Vic 27:44

I feel the same.

SPEAKER_02 27:45

Yeah, yes, from a women and in technology or women and leadership um standpoint. And it's and it's funny because, like, for example, in engineering school, there were five of us um women and 150 or something like that. But um I think back in the day, and also younger in your younger days, you don't think about the the difference the same way. So um, so anyway, to answer your question, so as I became aware of um the uh diversity and inclusion dimension, I became aware of the fact that I I come from a pretty different or unique position because um I represent multiple cultures, I have the technical expertise and the business expertise, so different people and persona, men or women, can identify from different angles. And so uh when I joined Comvault, um I I started a very uh productive dialogue with our head of HR who joined at the same same day I did. And then she gave me a challenge and I took it, which is hey, do you want to be uh the first, do you want to pilot and create the best practice and methodology around mentorship circles? Mentorship circles, so it's a um it's a concept that um Cheryl Sandberg kind of introduced to the to the public a few years ago with uh the lean in book. And it's the whole idea is instead of having one-on-one mentoring to expand that to a circle so that benefit it benefits the group from the interactions and different perspectives and and light you can shine on it. So uh what I did with the yeah, very powerful. So the added challenge I received was not just to create the first mentoring circle for the company, but also do it in a Mia for a group of folks in a Mia, doing it from where I sit in Palo Alto. Um, and um and so uh had uh the pleasure of uh mentoring uh a group of nine wonderful ladies and bringing a different uh topic to the table every day. I had the privilege of having Vicky uh help us facilitate a couple of topics, um, etc. Uh very motivated ladies and uh different steps in their careers. Um the interesting thing in this experience is that the whole interaction started with a lens of we are all different because I represented executive leadership in the US, they lived in different countries in EMIA. Uh, there was a little bit of the preconceived notions that we're not facing the same challenges or addressing the same issues, but as we started to go through all topics around leadership, personalities, etc., we found so many common threads and the trampoline started to function, like one idea building on another. I learned a lot, and I think everyone learned as well.

Sam 30:31

Fantastic. That's brilliant stuff. So, what advice would you give the next generation of women in tech? And you know, let's let's include the guys, they don't need so much of a leg up, do they? But you know, as the as the dad of a of a 14-year-old girl, it would be nice to see uh better representation.

SPEAKER_02 30:50

Yeah, uh so I would say, hey, I mean, don't shy, girls, uh don't shy away from science and math. I mean, if that's something that is appealing to you, go for it. Uh, I'm gonna date myself and that's totally fine. But when I was 10 or something, it was the the first generation of um, you know, the personal computers, the Commodore 64, whatever the name was. And I think in my neighborhood, all the guys had that, and I was the only girl, and now I would compete with them and go program the little, you know, basic algorithms and and and all that stuff.

Sam 31:24

That's like you maybe more than compete with them, you might but you might defeat them.

SPEAKER_02 31:28

It did happen on occasion, it really did. Uh, and um, and I I realize now that it required some courage, but at the same time, I was just following my natural inclination. So, girls, if your natural inclination is science and math and computer science or whatever, don't shy away. There are lots of boys out there, but if you if that's where your passion resides, go for it. It takes a teeny bit of courage, but just go for it. That's definitely one thing. And then the other thing I want to, based on my experience, um, that I would like to advise provide as advice to the young generations, there is no predetermined path. There is no choice there that is definitive. And I'm also here, there is also a cultural difference I want to call out between uh North America, like US-Canada type of cultures versus Europe, although things have been evolving, where in Europe, from a let's say from a studies or training standpoint, if you're set on a path, you choose super early and it feels like it's your path for life. Whereas I think there is a lot of value in experimenting, failing fast, changing path, uh, etc., which is the privilege. I had that privilege with a company like HP back in the day. So definitely, you know, um uh try out different things and find your calling because when two things come together, which are your aptitude and your appetite, that's a winning formula. You have the skills, but it's also something that you really love doing. And then um appetites, which you can also equate to passion, is not necessarily just linked to your hobbies and things that you do outside of work. Um, I like there's a definition of uh passion that I really like or appetite, which is what are the things that you enjoy doing at work and you find yourself going back to? That's going to define to a large extent your passion. And if you bring the two together, your aptitude and your appetite, it's a winning formula. But again, that formula can change over the course of your career, and that's totally fine.

Vic 33:26

I think I I'm an example of that from starting out as a school teacher, changing careers, going into tech, and being so passionate about tech, and then actually realizing in my latter years at VMware that my passion wasn't the tech, it was the people.

SPEAKER_02 33:42

There you go. Be like Vicky, that's my ultimate advice. So but you you listen to yourself. I mean, you you followed your like your true to yourself, Vicky. And I think that that's very important.

Vic 33:53

Yeah, and and actually I love what you said at the beginning about um there was a term that you used when you're talking about following science and maths. If that's your calling, passion, if that's your calling, yeah. And if it is your calling, then follow it. But also don't think you have to do it if it's not. If I look at my daughter now, she's not interested in science like I was interested in science. Not at all. So we try if you go, oh no, why aren't there all these girls in tech? It might be, but they're just not interested in the tech. So we you can't artificially bump the numbers up.

Sam 34:32

It's funny you said that because as you know, I you know, I ended up doing a very tech role. Um, yeah, but I didn't I didn't do science at A-level in university. I found classics, Latin, Greek, and stuff like that. Um, which is still fantastic brain training, it's just slightly different brain training, I guess. And you know, my route into proper tech was fairly secure circuitous via sales and sales management in the first instance, into services and then into tech. But um, you know, equally, don't if you do find it interesting, don't get yourself stranded just because you haven't followed a traditional kind of career path, would be my recommendation.

Vic 35:14

Yeah, it's interesting that you've almost done the opposite to Lamia. So Lamia started more technical, yeah, and moved more commercial, and you started more commercial and went more.

Sam 35:23

I got geekier and geekier as as I went along, as I found I enjoyed it more and more, and my beard got longer um and my glasses got bigger. No, it's it was really interesting. You know, it's just it was a completely different angle because I went at it from the point of view of our customers would buy more technology from us if we understood what that technology meant and could help them deploy it to the benefit of their business. So I went at it from a sort of a services and solutions design angle and almost from the business into the tech rather than from the tech into the business.

Vic 36:02

What we've just done, we've just done a full circle back to Lamia's point at right at the beginning about being customer-centric.

Sam 36:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that was it. I think um, you know, I think that stood me in good stead. No, it wasn't, yeah, well, well, well not scripted. I think it stood me in good stead because it, you know, it meant that I was ultimately interested in what the tech did for the business rather than the tech in and of itself, which is where the market was moving towards. So very interesting. Yeah. So Lamy, as we draw to a close, you best give us your three your key takeaways. We let people normally have three, but you can truncate that if we're short on time.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

It it may boil down to Amy one key takeaway, which is, or one key word, which is listen, listen, listen. And what do I mean by that? So we're all uh in a universe, and that's even more true for younger generations, where it's consume, uh it's don't don't pause much, consume information in small bits and just go, go, go. And I think pausing and listening both to yourself in terms of um your aspirations, your appetite, your aptitude, your calling, and doing that often and reflecting on your trajectory. Am I on track? Do I need to make different choices, etc.? That is extremely important. So listen. So pause to listen to yourself and make adjustments along the way, uh, as opposed to letting life or your career happen to you. Many of us are blessed to be in a position of choice, so grab that choice, but you gotta pause and listen. Um, and then back to the main topic: the the the the uh the topic of um collaborating in a global, regional, um, country uh setting. Uh, I will boil it down to what Vicky talked about, which is active listening does equate to that trampoline type of analogy, where there is a one idea builds on top of each other. And again, if you're in a global seat, do your homework. You're not just regurgitating what you heard from your regions. Um, at the same time, you're not bringing a point of view that is only driven by external research and um and all the wonderful things that the Forester and IDC might tell you. Very valuable, but bring the two together, listen to both and um and and enrich that um dialogue that is based on listening.

Sam 38:25

Fantastic. Thank you. Ricky, you must take us quickly through team experience before we wrap up.

Vic 38:31

I would love to, thank you. So, Lamia, I know you've listened to a a couple of our podcasts. We like to ask our guests what great team experience means to them, because we spend so much time of our lives in in work, as we've we've kind of alluded to as we've talked through this, and there's so much now in the tech industry about customer experience and employee experience. To me, my employee experience actually comes down to what my team experience really is and who I'm working with and who I'm interacting with. Um, and I know that the team experience I had with you just filled me with joy, quite honestly. So, what what does great team experience mean to you?

SPEAKER_02 39:21

So it's kind of similar to you, Vicky. I think um uh there there need to be at least two ingredients in it. Uh, first of all, the the results need to be there. So it's very energizing for a team to uh rally around common goals and for those goals to actually materialize um and set the stage for further success, etc. So this is where I go back to hey, we're in the business of running businesses and therefore uh getting to the goal is uh is very important. But doing that in a in a very collaborative, um, nice type of environment where people enjoy working with each other, that's the winning formula. And sometimes, you know, we enjoy working with people and we have good conversations, very energizing from a human standpoint, but you don't have the satisfaction totally from it because you're not achieving the business results as you should. Just feeling fulfilled. And the opposite could be true. Exactly. And sometimes you do get to, um, and you you and I have mutual experiences there that we're not gonna bring up here, sometimes you do achieve phenomenal business results, but at what cost, right? In terms of human interactions and some hostility, etc. Uh, so um that's what teaming means to me. I mean, if you you know, if we're able to meet the financial and corporate objectives and be good shareholders, etc., that's great. If we do it with good people who uh build on each other's ideas and respect each other, that's awesome.

Vic 40:49

Thank you.

Sam 40:50

Well, maybe soon someday soon we might end up doing a face-to-face podcast.

Vic 40:55

Yeah, that'd be cool. That'd be nice.

Sam 40:57

Yeah, yeah, we'll Lamy has promised to come over.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

I will actually, yeah, because our our Convault Emia team is based in the UK. So my first Demia trip is gonna be there.

Sam 41:10

So yeah, yeah, cool. Well, maybe we can do uh Lamia Part Du.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Yeah, okay. I'll sign up.

Sam 41:19

Fantastic. On that dubious pun, perhaps uh we should bring this to a close. So it just remains for me to say thank you, Lamia, for joining us today. Uh that was magnificent, really enjoyed it. So it just remains for me to say thanks for listening to Get Amplified from the Amplified Group. As always, your comments and your subscriptions are gratefully received.